Inside China's war on Islam

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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby GrahamB on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:48 pm

Man it’s the start of January and I think you just did rad post of the year already....
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Bao on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:49 pm

Don’t worry, I’ll try to come up with something funnier...
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby GrahamB on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:46 pm

Now we've covered inside and outside, tomorrow we are going to do near and far. You'll love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0

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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby vagabond on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:58 pm

wow
i've had a couple glasses, so i'll come back later.
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Trick on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:26 pm

There’s not a war against Islam in China. Muslims are free as anyone to go to schools, do business as any one else here.……peacetalk’s words about multiculturalism has some truth, multiculturalism it’s a lie on a deeper sense, there will always be one “culture” that want to be the dominant and this you can see anywhere in the world on any continent.
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Trick on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:29 am

Bao wrote:
GrahamB wrote:Yeah because if I personally don’t know any Muslims who were put in concentration camps in China then it can’t be happening, right?


When it comes to anti-Chinese propaganda it’s often more a questions about proportions, how and the extent of something. What the newspaper claim is that there is a war against Islam and Islamic minorities which is absolutely not true. But I would not be surprised if there was some kind of prison like camp in Xinjiang. If you do a search about this you’ll find that there are many different ideas and opinions it looks like and how many there are in there. So I wouldn’t bet on that all of what a newspaper says is true.

As I wrote in another thread, this year is the 70th anniversary of the PRC, and it’s time for the “mandatory” anti China propaganda escalations in certain western media, politicians and so. Some of these just really dislike China, sometimes even to the point they point toward the Chinese people. They turn out to be blunt racist in their fight for non racisism and equallity, blinded by their own narrow minded “goodness”…… Not hinting toward anyone on this forum
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Steve James on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:06 am

there will always be one “culture” that want to be the dominant and this you can see anywhere in the world on any continent.


That is true. There is always one "culture" that wants to be dominant. But, the argument against multiculturalism has nothing at all to do with that. Nowhere in the world where there is any freedom is there a "mono-culture." There might be those who wish their "culture" to be dominant, but there have always been more than one "culture" everywhere.

People who are against multi-culturalism aren't really against it. They just have a particular (self-serving) view of what culture is. For example, are tacos, pizza, and chow mein parts of American culture? Don't bother arguing that food is not part of culture.

What about religion? The US (they'll say) is a Christian country --meaning that most people attend Christian churches. Does that mean that Jews or atheists are part of American culture? Do non-Christians need to convert or be destroyed --as in the Inquisitions?

Ok, it's really about language: i.e. English. Of course, anyone who knows anything at all about the history of England and English know that most of their kings spoke French. In fact, most of the "culture" of England is multi-cultural, so much so that many English speakers can barely understand each other. Fair enough: the descendants of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Picts, Gaels, Celts, Frisians, etc., and Roman leftovers, are now considered English when they live in England. But, they didn't have the same cultures in terms of language. It is certainly true that the English have dominated the Scots and Irish. Please don't claim that they have the same culture because they speak the same language. In fact, many Irish (and Welsh) are attempting to practice their ancestral languages. Otoh, they are part of a United Kingdom that allows them to be British, while being culturally Australian or Canadian. And, should I mention that tikka masala is the most popular food dish in England. My point is simply that many cultures have, can, and do exist within in a single nation. It's true in England and in Jamaica.

Ah, but oral culture, material/food culture, and customs aren't what the anti-multiculturalists mean by culture. It started when people suggested that the history of the United States was not only the history of the English who settled in Virginia and Massachusetts. True, they came to dominate the legal and political systems. But, they entered a continent filled with ancestral cultures that, in fact, the English colonists depended on. Thanksgiving is a celebration of American food --none of it English or European. So, should we (USAmericans aopt Mexicamericans) learn the history of the _______ people who supposedly helped the Pilgrims survive?

Oh, and what about the Europeans who were here before the English? The ones who gave the names to most of our west coast states? Or the peoples from whom we got the names of states from the Dakotas to Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, etc? Right, we don't need to know about them because they aren't considered very important compared to other people. I.e., the people who get to write the history books. Additions oar amendments to that history are considered liberal, leftist, politically correct attempts at diversity, feminism, or multiculturalism.

If it were about culture, Protestants wouldn't have been murdering Catholics, and there wouldn't have been two world wars. It is about the desire to dominate and feel dominant. USAmericans in the South do not have the same "culture" as those in the North or West. Those differences cross racial, ethic, and linguistic categories. There is no homogeneity anywhere in the US, not even in all-single race towns. It certainly wasn't true where I grew up. Well, it's actually gotten less "diverse" in some ways. Ironically, that is what people seem to be afraid of. Well, that's because it used to be a place where poor people came. But, I'm still happy to live in a multi-cultural city that celebrates that fact. Tonight, I'll have some Thai.
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:25 pm

Steve James wrote:
there will always be one “culture” that want to be the dominant and this you can see anywhere in the world on any continent.


That is true. There is always one "culture" that wants to be dominant. But, the argument against multiculturalism has nothing at all to do with that. Nowhere in the world where there is any freedom is there a "mono-culture." There might be those who wish their "culture" to be dominant, but there have always been more than one "culture" everywhere.

People who are against multi-culturalism aren't really against it. They just have a particular (self-serving) view of what culture is. For example, are tacos, pizza, and chow mein parts of American culture? Don't bother arguing that food is not part of culture.

What about religion? The US (they'll say) is a Christian country --meaning that most people attend Christian churches. Does that mean that Jews or atheists are part of American culture? Do non-Christians need to convert or be destroyed --as in the Inquisitions?

Ok, it's really about language: i.e. English. Of course, anyone who knows anything at all about the history of England and English know that most of their kings spoke French. In fact, most of the "culture" of England is multi-cultural, so much so that many English speakers can barely understand each other. Fair enough: the descendants of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Picts, Gaels, Celts, Frisians, etc., and Roman leftovers, are now considered English when they live in England. But, they didn't have the same cultures in terms of language. It is certainly true that the English have dominated the Scots and Irish. Please don't claim that they have the same culture because they speak the same language. In fact, many Irish (and Welsh) are attempting to practice their ancestral languages. Otoh, they are part of a United Kingdom that allows them to be British, while being culturally Australian or Canadian. And, should I mention that tikka masala is the most popular food dish in England. My point is simply that many cultures have, can, and do exist within in a single nation. It's true in England and in Jamaica.

Ah, but oral culture, material/food culture, and customs aren't what the anti-multiculturalists mean by culture. It started when people suggested that the history of the United States was not only the history of the English who settled in Virginia and Massachusetts. True, they came to dominate the legal and political systems. But, they entered a continent filled with ancestral cultures that, in fact, the English colonists depended on. Thanksgiving is a celebration of American food --none of it English or European. So, should we (USAmericans aopt Mexicamericans) learn the history of the _______ people who supposedly helped the Pilgrims survive?

Oh, and what about the Europeans who were here before the English? The ones who gave the names to most of our west coast states? Or the peoples from whom we got the names of states from the Dakotas to Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, etc? Right, we don't need to know about them because they aren't considered very important compared to other people. I.e., the people who get to write the history books. Additions oar amendments to that history are considered liberal, leftist, politically correct attempts at diversity, feminism, or multiculturalism.

If it were about culture, Protestants wouldn't have been murdering Catholics, and there wouldn't have been two world wars. It is about the desire to dominate and feel dominant. USAmericans in the South do not have the same "culture" as those in the North or West. Those differences cross racial, ethic, and linguistic categories. There is no homogeneity anywhere in the US, not even in all-single race towns. It certainly wasn't true where I grew up. Well, it's actually gotten less "diverse" in some ways. Ironically, that is what people seem to be afraid of. Well, that's because it used to be a place where poor people came. But, I'm still happy to live in a multi-cultural city that celebrates that fact. Tonight, I'll have some Thai.


Excellent post, Steve.
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:45 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Excellent post, Steve.


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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 am

Not sure if it's the same story but I read about this recent report elsewhere.

The sad part is that when Xin Jiang leave Xin Jiang to work in the major cities to achieve the dream of becoming part of the Chinese middle class the Chinese don't trust them and treat them with horribly.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:21 am

Great post Steve!

Yes, the far right enjoys attacking the idea of multiculturalism when the fact is we have always been and will always be a multicultural society and world. The only difference is that today slowly but surely the story of everyone is being told.

The whole thing reminds of white supremacists who teach skinheads fighting, racial superiority and attack multiculturalism while teaching their guys Asian martial arts. LOL!
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Trick on Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 am

grzegorz wrote:Not sure if it's the same story but I read about this recent report elsewhere.

The sad part is that when Xin Jiang leave Xin Jiang to work in the major cities to achieve the dream of becoming part of the Chinese middle class the Chinese don't trust them and treat them with horribly.

What “Chinese” that don’t trust “them” do you mean ?
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Trick on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:48 am

I’m certainly not an expert on the history of global migrations and mingling, but for sure throughout centuries/millennia’s this has been the case(migration and mixing), I guess the mingling has been proceeded by conflicts(wars) so not too seldom there has been an “forced” mingling/mixing of people and cultures.…As pointed out in the thread multi-culturalism has had some success mostly in Europe and the US, at least the “lighter” aspect of it such as many kinds of cuisine and word/names being in use. But open and friendly muliticulturalism seem to be quite young starting sometimes from the mid of last century, it will be interesting to see how it will proceed in the coming decades. From the taste of “multi culture light” I got today at the new Shopping mall here in Huainan the concept might be in a crackle, I was quite seriously told that I couldn’t eat the KFC food i brought with me to the Starbucks where i had just bought a coffee and cheese cake and settled down in a sofa, a procedure I freely could to back when I lived in Dalian. Could this be a sign of times to come, cultures in the civilized world will have more and more difficulties to getting along. The movie “do the right thing” suddenly came to mind.
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Steve James on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:32 am

By deep multiculturalism, do you mean the desire of so many USAMERICAN men to mate with Asian women? Was multiculturalism introduced in the Americas when Europeans arrived? Did the Spanish, French, and Dutch have a monoculture? Do they have one now.

The problem is that multiculturalism as it is used has nothing to do with Culture. It is about the perception of cultural domination. But, that domination is social and political. For example, all of the greatest European empires were multicultural. Rome assimilated peoples and adopted their cultures, but imposed it's rule with its military. And any of its conquered people became Roman. The only time they acted Roman was in Rome.

Alexander the Great specialized in multiculturalism. I.e., his army was comprised of many peoples. He conquered Persia, and married some of his men off to Persians. OK, his men were tired and wanted to return to Macedonia. So, his plans for a Greek -Persian empire died with him.

Cultural imperialism is when one group imposes its culture on others. People in some countries hate McDonalds because it represents American cultural imperialism. Regardless, is McDonalds more American than pizza, frankfurters, and hamburgers? What is American culture without the African, Indian, and Asian "cultural" elements? If you say it's a combination of several European cultures, it'd still be the obvious result of multiculturalism. It's not a new thing.

Afa the future, I don't know if Germany will invade France and Norway again. Europe will always be multicultural. Um, if we're talking about culture --which we aren't. Smiley face.
Last edited by Steve James on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

Postby Steve James on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:39 am

"Do the Right Thing" has a perfect example of an Italian American (white) guy who loved Michael Jackson but hated black people. But, Brooklyn is as multicultural as it gets.
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