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Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:09 am
by Steve James
Hmm, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... u3OqKSNp9Y

In China, they’re closing churches, jailing pastors – and even rewriting scripture


It's not that I trust the Guardian, but here's the part of the article I wanted to emphasize.

Early Rain is the latest victim of what Chinese Christians and rights activists say is the worst crackdown on religion since the country’s Cultural Revolution, when Mao Zedong’s government vowed to eradicate religion.

Researchers say the current drive, fuelled by government unease over the growing number of Christians and their potential links to the west, is aimed not so much at destroying Christianity but bringing it to heel.

“The government has orchestrated a campaign to ‘sinicise’ Christianity, to turn Christianity into a fully domesticated religion that would do the bidding of the party,” said Lian Xi, a professor at Duke University in North Carolina, who focuses on Christianity in modern China.

Over the past year, local governments have shut hundreds of unofficial congregations or “house churches” that operate outside the government-approved church network, including Early Rain. A statement signed by 500 house church leaders in November says authorities have removed crosses from buildings, forced churches to hang the Chinese flag and sing patriotic songs, and bar minors from attending.


I would argue that the Chinese Christians are as culturally "Chinese" as any other. It's not about their culture; it's about their perceived or potential threat to the political system. It's no different from the alleged destruction of the Shaolin Temple. If it happened, it wasn't because they were Buddhists or not Chinese.

More importantly, if one thinks that it's either assimilate or be destroyed, then does one think the Chinese are right in making Christians conform? Well, were the Nazis right in demanding that Jews conform --which, of course, was ludicrous. Then again, like the Chinese and others, the German Nazis were simply identifying an enemy behind which they could consolidate their political power by creating the myth of a unified "folk." Fortunately, it meant that the best and brightest (Jewish) Germans fled to countries where they were accepted --and could be assimilated (?).

But, back to Christian persecution, if it's okay there, should we complain about it anywhere? I recall a few years ago, that exceptions would be made for Christians refugees from the Middle East. Don't get me wrong. I agree with letting them in, just not because they're Christians.

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:05 am
by grzegorz
Trick wrote:
grzegorz wrote:Not sure if it's the same story but I read about this recent report elsewhere.

The sad part is that when Xin Jiang leave Xin Jiang to work in the major cities to achieve the dream of becoming part of the Chinese middle class the Chinese don't trust them and treat them with horribly.

What “Chinese” that don’t trust “them” do you mean ?


How long have you lived in China for?

Did you even read the artilce?

Are you aware of what happened in Guangzhou?

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:10 am
by grzegorz
This anti-multiculturcalism argument is ridiculous. Xinjiang like Tibet was its it's own land with it's own people and outsiders have decided to erase and replace that culture with it's own. If someone wants to discuss how life is changing in Northern Europe then go ahead but this really isn't the place and is distortion of what is happening in Xinjiang.

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
by oragami_itto
The anit-multicultualism argument is doubly ridiculous coming from a gweilo who practices CMA.

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:31 pm
by grzegorz
Exactly or any type of martial art.

I have seen neo-nazis training in MT and BJJ and had to laugh.

Oh! The irony!

Not that we have nazis here but the fact is we benefit from "multiculturalism." At least I know I do.

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:36 pm
by grzegorz
It's worth mentioning that I did watch an inforwars doc on Sweden called Dying to be Diverse or something like that. At least I watched what I could stomach.

Needless to say the narrator who was raised in Sweden and loved it so much that his family emigrated (?) came back to the country his family was dying to leave back when it was "pure." Basically dude shows the problems faced by first generation immigrants as if these people don't deserve to be in Sweden. Instead of trying to learn about why these people came and the problems they face he basically craps on them.

I was ashamed that I watching it and feared I would become and incel and blame all my problems on the world instead of my own decisions in life and I shut the whiner off.

To me the most interesting thing was that dude talked about how wonderful Sweden was when he grew up there but never seems to discuss why his family left the land they loved so much. I guess it's easy to romanticize about a period of time that never actually existed.

Btw, I have been to Sweden and it was lovely in the Summer. But if it was great as dude says then why did he ever leave? Something tells me that he is probably from a family of whiners.

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:46 pm
by oragami_itto
grzegorz wrote:I was ashamed that I watching it and feared I would become and incel and blame all my problems on the world instead of my own decisions in life and I shut the whiner off.


It's funny how gettin laid every once in a while makes the world seem like such a better place.

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:26 pm
by grzegorz
The problem with people like Pelle Neroth Taylor is that he reports his "journalism" through a preconceived narrative. If he found evidence of immigrants adapting to life in Europe he wouldn't publish it in any of his works.

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:20 am
by Trick
oragami_itto wrote:The anit-multicultualism argument is doubly ridiculous coming from a gweilo who practices CMA.

:) are you labeling me as “anti-multiculturalist” ? Then I guess that show you are polarized to the point you just gotta throw bombs, but that’s maybe an US policy to do, carry on gunslinger 8-)

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:31 am
by Trick
grzegorz wrote:Xinjiang like Tibet was its it's own land with it's own people .
is this arguing for pro or anti multiculturalism? Before you begin to throw such labels as neo-Nazi, white-supremacist and the likes at me I must assure you I’m neither left or right, I’m a more a follower of a middle path going forward 8-)

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:35 am
by Trick
If someone wants to discuss how life is changing in Northern Europe then go ahead but this really isn't the place and is distortion of what is happening in Xinjiang.
then it continues 8-)
grzegorz wrote:It's worth mentioning that I did watch an inforwars doc on Sweden called Dying to be Diverse or something like that. At least I watched what I could stomach.

Needless to say the narrator who was raised in Sweden and loved it so much that his family emigrated (?) came back to the country his family was dying to leave back when it was "pure." Basically dude shows the problems faced by first generation immigrants as if these people don't deserve to be in Sweden. Instead of trying to learn about why these people came and the problems they face he basically craps on them.

I was ashamed that I watching it and feared I would become and incel and blame all my problems on the world instead of my own decisions in life and I shut the whiner off.

To me the most interesting thing was that dude talked about how wonderful Sweden was when he grew up there but never seems to discuss why his family left the land they loved so much. I guess it's easy to romanticize about a period of time that never actually existed.

Btw, I have been to Sweden and it was lovely in the Summer. But if it was great as dude says then why did he ever leave? Something tells me that he is probably from a family of whiners.

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:54 am
by Trick
grzegorz wrote:Exactly or any type of martial art.

I have seen neo-nazis training in MT and BJJ and had to laugh.

Oh! The irony!

Not that we have nazis here but the fact is we benefit from "multiculturalism." At least I know I do.

According to the Wiki the oldest of the two brothers that founded BJJ was a strong follower of theosophy who’s founder Blawaski(or something like that) claim to have gotten the teaching from the “great white brotherhood” , sound pretty supremacist, doesn’t it 8-) and variant of that “religion” was taken up buy WW2 Nazis ……That was something I found out when trying to find out something dark about the history of BJJ to counter this forums GrahamB’s “the dark history of Aikido”. But I didn’t proceed since the other founding brother seem to have been a good guy so I didn’t proceed

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:30 am
by Trick
grzegorz wrote:

Btw, I have been to Sweden and it was lovely in the Summer. But if it was great as dude says then why did he ever leave? Something tells me that he is probably from a family of whiners.


Sweden is(according to me)or at least use to be quite a boring place, not much of interesting way of life going on there. I got that confirmed by an American I met here in China when I just had moved here, he had been to Sweden a couple of times for business . He openly in an bombastic(but jokingly)way declared the best country in the world was the US then came Israel( he hold dual citizenship) and maybe but just maybe China came in at an third place, which made my wife(Chinese) somewhat angry where I with my Swedish neutrality meddling way calmed her down and all of us went along and had a good time, Just some multi culture at play 8-)

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:42 am
by Bao
Sweden, yeah... boring compared to many other countries. But many smaller countries are boring. Stockholm is better than some other smaller capitals, but my main issue is the Swedes themselves. Swedes, especially from worker and middle classes, usually have a disregard for culture, art and general knowledge. So if you want to speak about something else than the weather, Swedish celebrities and the royal family, most Swedes don’t have much to say. :P

Re: Inside China's war on Islam

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:53 am
by Trick
Steve James wrote:Hmm, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... u3OqKSNp9Y

In China, they’re closing churches, jailing pastors – and even rewriting scripture


It's not that I trust the Guardian, but here's the part of the article I wanted to emphasize.


I would argue that the Chinese Christians are as culturally "Chinese" as any other. It's not about their culture; it's about their perceived or potential threat to the political system. It's no different from the alleged destruction of the Shaolin Temple. If it happened, it wasn't because they were Buddhists or not Chinese.

.

As I wrote previously, now this year some(most) western media such as The Guardian will escalate its anti China propaganda already published two article, one China vs Islam and now China vs Christianity. Actually two religions that throughout their history have been used as political tools, Chinese government knows this can still happen and probably detected it at some fractions of these religions within China. And now the guardian is using these religions as an tool of politics