Cultural Appropriation

[Steve James]

I said it doesn't matter to me what they agree or disagree on. It's ok that they're talking about ending their mutual violence.

[cloudz]

The problem, in this case, is that you, george, and windy purposefully ignore the simple definition of cultural appropriation on the first page. Instead, you parrot a bunch of tired reverse outrage about how you (or white people or whatever) are the actual victims.

Victim(s) ?
what are you talking about?
I haven't made any victims here, myself or any others.

Now who's not listening.
It's one thing to have a definition and understand it; it's another to not find the very concept useful or particulatly meaningful.

I understand perfectly well what it refers to, I just find it unimportant - see my previous posts..
If you don't like that Ian, you're doing a poor job of convincing me otherwise.

[cloudz]

Coming back to the influence this has, I still think it's a pertinant point that you seem to have dropped out from discussing.
Who exactly are the "influencers" behind this, what is the motivation, who coined this term and what agendas do they follow exactly.
I don't know, but I'm slightly curious now.

Ok, fair enough. Let me put it like this. I've been using the term for 25+ years. I understand that, today, it's a label that people perceive as and use as an indictment against certain people, especially against the "dominant culture." As Mike points out, that usually means "White" people "appropriating" the "cultures" of others. I think that's silly in terms of what "culture" is. But, I can't help that people think silly things.

You are correct in focusing on the term "appropriation." Fundamentally, it means taking for oneself. My point was that it didn't necessarily mean "stealing." Origami-itto, iinm, argued that there was a difference between "appropriation" and "exchange." I agree, but that exchange happens through appropriation. I.e., I like the way someone dresses (or any aspect of culture --with a small c) and I copy it. I agree with Mike that a White lady should be able to make and sell tacos. I don't think that's a legitimate excuse to prevent her from doing it --especially not in the USofA.

Now, who "invented" the idea that cultural appropriation is malevolent. Basically, it has been those who have perceived that they have only lost from the exchange. If I am expected to have sympathy for the White taco sellers in 2019, it shouldn't be surprising that I'm at least as sympathetic for the Indian population. They complain because the dominant culture has actively attempted to destroy Indian culture, if not the Indians, themselves, and has forced them to adopt a culture that is not their own. Moreover, they resent the dominant culture's free use of Indian culture, including their names, images, symbols, and the corpses of their ancestors --which may not mean much to us, but we would understand if they were our ancestors.

If you think that using Omega Psi Phi as a fraternity name is appropriation, then how about Indiana, Iowa, Utah, Illinois, Massachusetts, Kentucky, Tennessee, ... meh, you get the point. Anyway, I find that calling it "cultural imperialism" makes the negative aspect clearer. It's no different from military and economic imperialism. For ex., in 90s Europe, there was a revolt against McDonald's, which was seen as a form of American cultural imperialism. Even today, there is resentment toward adoption of American culture. Of course, are we trying to make the world wear Levi's or does the world like jeans?

Those are some of the origins and the people who complain about it. Some distinguish between appropriation and mis-appropriation, but that becomes purely a value judgment. Hope that explains.

Thanks for that Steve.
I appreciate it.

I'm not really down with it(in the here and now), but I am a live and let live kind of guy.
So, whatever floats your boat.

I think i made my feeling clear
all are entitled to their opinion.

ps. I do post on RSF from my own work, (which has gotten busier) so apologies if I didn't follow your posts completely etc.

[Steve James]

Hey, studying culture not only floats my boat; it pays my bills.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

The problem, in this case, is that you, george, and windy purposefully ignore the simple definition of cultural appropriation on the first page. Instead, you parrot a bunch of tired reverse outrage about how you (or white people or whatever) are the actual victims.

Victim(s) ?
what are you talking about?
I haven't made any victims here, myself or any others.

Now who's not listening.
It's one thing to have a definition and understand it; it's another to not find the very concept useful or particulatly meaningful.

I understand perfectly well what it refers to, I just find it unimportant - see my previous posts..
If you don't like that Ian, you're doing a poor job of convincing me otherwise.

Try again. I was directly addressing Mike on the victim card. That's clearly his whole shtick. And, whether you claim to have read it or not, you clearly don't understand the simple definition as displayed by your responses. After all, why would you find the term useful?