Vaccinations

[Steve James]

So, there's a measles outbreak now in Rockland County, NY. It's especially severe in the orthodox Jewish community there. I remember there was a lot of anti-vaccine talk on RSF. Anyway, in that county, they are prohibiting un-vaccinated kids from being in public. What do you think?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/measles-ou ... emergency/

Something similar happened in Washington.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itpkqKK6Q68

Okay, I know there are loads of anti-vaxx proponents. I got vaccinated. My kids and their kids got vaccinated. IF you haven't and don't, that's cool. The question is about whether compliance for public safety can be demanded.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQpQOLnzQ6E

[Peacedog]

Legally speaking, I think the authorities are on pretty solid ground.

Personally speaking, the anti-vaxers, and I have family in this camp, severely piss me off.

This all started as part of a "let's blame someone else for our kid's autism" conspiracy theory. We now know that autism is genetic and has nothing to do with vaccines. Most of the evidence indicates it happens because people wait too long to have children, although there are exceptions.

Back to the anti-vaxers. My issue with their ignorance is both personal and professional. Personally, I had a classmate in high school come down with polio in the 1980s. His family was from sub-Saharan Africa. They made a family reunion trip and he went from being a track star with an appointment to Annapolis to a scrawny kid walking with a cane over a period of about 9 months. All of this happened because he was never vaccinated. I've also contracted both malaria and dengue fever over the years and I would have loved to have gotten that year of my life back via a vaccine if one had been available.

Professionally, and this is perhaps what chaps my hide the most, is that not everyone who gets a vaccine can hold immunity. I really don't care if someone gets themselves killed by a vaccine preventable disease if they declined it, but these jerks are also risking the lives of others who can't keep vaccine provided immunity. And populations are only protected when everyone has the vaccine.

If you've ever seen cholera rip through some village in a shithole country or entire towns full of the yellow hepatitis eyes, you know you don't want to see it here.

[origami_itto]

Most places have seatbelt laws to, if not save us from our stupidity, at least make us pay for it if we insist on willful endangerment that could be prevented.

Why shouldn't such an obvious public health and safety concern not also be enforceable by law?

[roger hao]

Couple of points here -

If vaccinated how is someone un-vaccinated a threat?

The correlation between autism and vaccination in kids is real.
People - like Steve - that were vaccinated in the past may have experiences
before the formulas became tainted.

[Peacedog]

As I already explained, just because you are vaccinated does not mean you can hold the titers. That's why what is commonly referred to as "herd immunity" is required to guarantee a society stays free of vaccination preventable diseases.

And no, you are completely wrong. Austism is 100% genetic in origin. DNA research over the last five years has comprehensively proven this. Even Joe Rogan had to concede this on his podcast.

[Steve James]

The only reason people think there's a correlation is because of evidence offered on the internet. And, generally, it will be from someone who offers a reason why the medical community favors vaccination.

Vaccinated people aren't at risk; un-vaccinated people are. Fetuses and newborns are at severe risk if the mother gets the disease. The disease itself can be mild but have serious complications. If you believe the CDC, here are some: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkb ... plications

Afa my era, it's true that things were different. We all got our "shots" and we all got the childhood diseases. We got the disease but didn't get autism, and I doubt that the vaccines 50 years ago were cleaner than today's. I don't think that my kids got those diseases, or as many. Fwiw, there seem to be many more cases of allergies and asthma. Anyway, by the 2000s, it was rare or unheard of.

Hey, measles doesn't kill many, but it will kill some. If there's a problem with the vaccine, that can be fixed. Just being against vaccines is irrational. For example, suppose ebola got to the US, and a vaccine were offered. Yes, it might kill two out of every 1000 people. Would you take the chance after 100 people come down with the disease? Of course, if no one had the disease, I might say the vaccination was unnecessary. I might not even have ever seen the disease. RIght now, there is an epidemic of measles cases where the disease had been eliminated. Iow, people will change their minds when it's at their door, or the way it used to be.


https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http ... 0-.jpg&f=1

I don't blame them, though. They never saw scenes like these or measles wards in hospitals.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http ... gs.jpg&f=1


https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http ... eb.jpg&f=1

[Peacedog]

Yeah, that’s the thing. Having seen some of the things I have abroad, I’m a little sensitive to the issue.

[edededed]

Vaccination was one of the major breakthroughs of modern medicine. It seems ridiculous to avoid protecting your children from horrible diseases.

Again, education is key - lack of knowledge prevents reasonable decisions.

[Finny]

Personally speaking, the anti-vaxers, and I have family in this camp, severely piss me off.

+1

This all started as part of a "let's blame someone else for our kid's autism" conspiracy theory. We now know that autism is genetic and has nothing to do with vaccines. Most of the evidence indicates it happens because people wait too long to have children, although there are exceptions.

Not really - it really gained traction in 1997 with the Lancet publication of Wakefield's faked study re. MMR vaccine and autism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Couple of points here -

If vaccinated how is someone un-vaccinated a threat?

The correlation between autism and vaccination in kids is real.
People - like Steve - that were vaccinated in the past may have experiences
before the formulas became tainted.

Your question displays a blissful ignorance of epidemiology.

No, the correlation is absolutely not real - a study recently conclusively showed that.

Anti-vaccination folk are idiots.

[windwalker]

PORTLAND, Ore. — Oregon health officials have confirmed two more cases of measles linked to a traveler diagnosed with the illness who recently made several stops in Salem.

The new cases are a Multnomah County resident and a Clackamas County resident. A total of four confirmed cases are linked to the traveler.

The Oregon Health Authority said the cases are unrelated to the outbreak in Clark County, Washington, where more than 70 people have been diagnosed with the virus. They are also unrelated to previous measles cases in Multnomah County.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health ... b235ff73a5

Recently relocated to the Portland area. Getting or not getting vaccinated is in the news.
Had a family friend who had polio long ago, had to have an iron lung to help her breath.

In the military back in the 70s while in Germany working as a medic at the time we vacannatied the battaloion with
the swine flue shot.



More then half the battalion was put out of commission due to the injection the next day.
Not good as this battalion was supposed to be ready to go within 2hrs notice.

The vaccination program was plagued by delays and public relations problems.[74] On October 1, 1976, immunizations began, and three senior citizens died soon after receiving their injections.

This resulted in a media outcry that linked these deaths to the immunizations, despite the lack of any proof the vaccine was the cause. According to science writer Patrick Di Justo, however, by the time the truth was known—that the deaths were not proven to be related to the vaccine—it was too late.

"The government had long feared mass panic about swine flu—now they feared mass panic about the swine flu vaccinations." This became a strong setback to the program.[75]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza

More then half our battalion was sick the next day..
As far as I know they stopped using it back then..

In the military most unless its changed have a shot record that has to be kept up to date
with all different types of vacations, more depending on where one is deployed.

Had and given many vacations while in the military, its the best way to insure
the safety of oneself and others.

For those immigrating legally into the US they have to show proof of being vaccinated
or be vaccinated. In becoming a legal resident of Taiwan, couldn't find my shot records,
had to be vaccinated again as part of the application process.

[roger hao]

I have to make the leap then -

What about un-vaccinated illegal immigrants?

Could the measles epidemic be the start of what we were warned about?

[origami_itto]

The leap is assuming immigrants are unvaccinated, why, because they're just dirty, like cockroaches?

Mexico Bests U.S. in Vaccinations

[windwalker]

The leap is assuming immigrants are unvaccinated, why, because they're just dirty, like cockroaches?

Mexico Bests U.S. in Vaccinations

Project much.

Aside from the fact they are in the country illegally, for many of them there is no way to prove that they've been vaccinated. Which they would have to do if they enter the country legally, intending to be residents.

[windwalker]

I have to make the leap then -

What about un-vaccinated illegal immigrants?

Could the measles epidemic be the start of what we were warned about?

There are no, illegal immigrants, or as some say undocumented immigrants.

to be considered an immigrant one has to have went through a process conferring immigration status.

There are illegal aliens, whose status is unknown they are in country illegal which is why they are called aliens.

There is a real danger for large groups or even single individuals living in the US illegaly who come from countries which carry other diseases or different strains of the same diseases that are vaccinated here, the vaccaintions may not be effective against.

[windwalker]

Some may not remember.

"I remember when I was with Special Forces, seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying.

He couldn’t see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile, a pile of little arms.

And I remember, I, I, I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget."

Also happens in today's time.