what is increased strength

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what is increased strength

Postby everything on Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:31 pm

Not sure why this is news, but if you lift heavier weights, you are stronger. What does that mean? Your nervous system can activate more motor neurons or excite them more frequently. For normal activities, you then excite a far lower proportion or less frequently to work on the same load. Which is kind of duh. That suitcase doesn't feel as heavy to you. The next question is what is "internal" strength. Some people seem to think it's also about somehow doing something more efficiently, recruiting more neurons, or something mechanical, but this doesn't make sense, as lifting a heavier weight is better if it's about strength and functional resistance (like swinging a kettlebell) is going to be better for functional movement except for the very sport-specific.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 091652.htm

Over the past few years, researchers have found evidence that lifting more repetitions of lighter weight can build muscle mass just as well as fewer reps of heavier weight. Even so, those who train with heavier weight still see greater gains in strength than those who lift lighter loads.

But if strength differs even when muscle mass does not, what explains the disparity?

Nathaniel Jenkins and his colleagues may have uncovered some answers by measuring how the brain and motor neurons -- cells that send electrical signals to muscle -- adapt to high- vs. low-load weight training. Their study suggests that high-load training better conditions the nervous system to transmit electrical signals from the brain to muscles, increasing the force those muscles can produce to a greater extent than does low-load training.

Muscles contract when they receive electrical signals that originate in the brain's neuron-rich motor cortex. Those signals descend from the cortex to the spinal tract, speeding through the spine while jumping to other motor neurons that then excite muscle fibers.

Jenkins found evidence that the nervous system activates more of those motor neurons -- or excites them more frequently -- when subjected to high-load training. That increased excitation could account for the greater strength gains despite comparable growth in muscle mass.


"If we see a decrease in voluntary activation at these sub-maximal force levels, that suggests that these guys are more efficient," Jenkins said. "They are able to produce the same force, but they activate fewer motor units to do it."

Placing electrodes on the participants to record the electrical signatures of their quadriceps reinforced those results. High-load training led to a substantially larger drop in electrical activity after six weeks, the study reported, and that activity was lower across most levels of exertion.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Taste of Death on Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:19 pm

For strength training info go to https://www.strongfirst.com/community/

For internal strength find a good teacher then find a better one. It's near impossible to discuss internals anywhere but in person. It must be hand to hand not mouth to mouth.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Trick on Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:51 pm

for an single muscle its the build up after the breakdown it was exposed to when it "lifted" heavy. the muscle build up slightly more tissue to be able to handle the weight that previously caused "harm" to it. the build up phase occure during rest....but then of course we use multiple muscles when we are in action, so an harmonious interaction between all the muscle might produce "feats of streangth" despite one is not very "muscle bound"
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby roger hao on Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:23 am

My experience -

It takes a period of time to excite/engage the nervous system.
Light weight more reps is for cut.
Heavy weight stacked or to exhaustion is for muscle mass.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Peacedog on Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:58 am

My problem with all of these studies is that the clown show that is "exercise science" still refuses to talk with the people who have experience at making people strong. Until they get their asses out of poorly written literature and into a black iron gym, they are just screwing around.

If you want to improve strength, you are talking barbells. If you want to get stronger 1-3 repetitions per set. If you want strength with size your are now taking 5 reps per set. You are talking no more than a total of about 20 reps per exercise. So upwards of 7 sets if you are using 1-3 reps and about 3-5 sets if you use 5 reps per set.

Anything over 5 reps is about the pump, which has limited uses in the bodybuilding world and none in the performance world. And higher rep sets generally require steroids to get results. Generally speaking no one without using anabolic assistance beyond the age of about 25-28 can recover from higher rep schemes in the first place, unless they are using very light weights.

I just find all of this annoying in the extreme. None of it is complicated and none of it hard to figure out. Everyone has tried different rep and set schemes. And without drugs, they don't work.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby everything on Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:37 am

I like the strongfirst community for the kb stuff. Pretty much the only stuff I do.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Taste of Death on Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:30 pm

everything wrote:I like the strongfirst community for the kb stuff. Pretty much the only stuff I do.


Their bodyweight and barbell stuff is good, too.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Peacedog on Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:16 pm

What does their bodyweight stuff look like? Is it Convict Conditioning type workouts?
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Taste of Death on Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:29 pm

Peacedog wrote:What does their bodyweight stuff look like? Is it Convict Conditioning type workouts?


The Push: One-Arm One-Leg Pushup, Wall-Supported Handstand Pushup
The Pull: Tactical Pull-up, Hanging Leg Raise, Front Lever
The Squat: Pistol

https://www.strongfirst.com/certifications/sfb-bodyweight-instructor-information/
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby D_Glenn on Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:02 pm

Internal strength comes about by learning to utilize your tendons, and fascia to better coordinate your whole skeletal structure. Understanding the rigging lets the bones support your body, which frees up the tendons and muscles to focus on martial movements. The second aspect is learning to better utilize more movement of individual bones (especially of the ribs and spine) to move each part in a sequential chain, in order to add and deliver a secondary movement, within the attacking movements of the rest of the body. You can’t use a muscular (weightlifting) type of strength to find these more complicated functions, or to figure out the complex manner in which they intertwine with the rest of the body. They require relaxing into, rather than tensing and striving. After you learn the movement, and can competently execute it over and over, in a relaxed manner, then you can start adding in the muscular strength to it. And that muscular strength can then be gradually incremented and the nervous system improved (myelineation, recruitment etc.).
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Peacedog on Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:29 am

The part that gets left out is that resistance training builds the connective tissue far more effectively and quickly than any other medium.

You still need to integrate it and that is what a lot of internal training does.

But purely internal methods build new tissue very slowly if at all.

The bottom line is you need to do both. And this pretty much born out by personal experience. The energetically strong were physically strong as well.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Taste of Death on Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:47 am

D_Glenn wrote:Internal strength comes about by learning to utilize your tendons, and fascia to better coordinate your whole skeletal structure. Understanding the rigging lets the bones support your body, which frees up the tendons and muscles to focus on martial movements. The second aspect is learning to better utilize more movement of individual bones (especially of the ribs and spine) to move each part in a sequential chain, in order to add and deliver a secondary movement, within the attacking movements of the rest of the body. You can’t use a muscular (weightlifting) type of strength to find these more complicated functions, or to figure out the complex manner in which they intertwine with the rest of the body. They require relaxing into, rather than tensing and striving. After you learn the movement, and can competently execute it over and over, in a relaxed manner, then you can start adding in the muscular strength to it. And that muscular strength can then be gradually incremented and the nervous system improved (myelineation, recruitment etc.).


Systema pushups


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SgYn6rkoNQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lVYkGGnSf0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUMwaJElq0M
Last edited by Taste of Death on Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby greytowhite on Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:34 pm

My lil gong fu brother really started to understand anjing once he practiced Systema pushups for a while. Really upgrades the strike penetration.
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Trick on Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:40 pm

but ultimately arent we seeking "the weak subdues the strong"? 8-)
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Re: what is increased strength

Postby Taste of Death on Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:43 pm

Trick wrote:but ultimately arent we seeking "the weak subdues the strong"? 8-)


That's bjj you're thinking of. Helio Gracie was a cripple, no?
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