Trump's Trade War

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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby grzegorz on Mon May 20, 2019 7:23 pm

It occurs to me that this trade war is a bit of a dilemma for conservatives. Conservatives traditionally believe in free trade, the free market and doing what is necessary to please the shareholders. Therefore cutting costs and maximizing profits is the goal and making your product for less is the obvious conclusion. Closing down the factory in Indiana and having those MAGA hats made in China meets these goals and now the current GOP is blaming everything on China yet it is their own principles that got us here.
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon May 20, 2019 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby windwalker on Mon May 20, 2019 7:46 pm

everything wrote:I dunno, though, because the bottom line is that none of the economists, political scientists, journalists, and others writing about this seem to understand what "game" Trump is playing. Maybe the psychologists understand.


Why would you expect those whos policies are why the US is at this point, to agree with some one trying to change them ?
Worked in china, and the far east in solar and semi conductor industry
What the chinese had was scale and control over their currency.




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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby grzegorz on Mon May 20, 2019 7:54 pm

Steve James wrote:It seems odd to say that whatever (positive) economic changes can be attributed to a "trade war."


True, any increase in wages has nothing to do with the trade war. Had Trump pushed his tariffs through Congress they could have a lasting impact.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby Steve James on Mon May 20, 2019 7:56 pm

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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby grzegorz on Mon May 20, 2019 9:04 pm

If we are going to give credit to the pres when the economy does well then we should be able to criticize the pres when the economy does poorly. Personally I don't believe the pres has a big effect on the economy but of course they do have yet mostly we can't see the results until after they're gone.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby everything on Mon May 20, 2019 9:20 pm

windwalker wrote:
everything wrote:I dunno, though, because the bottom line is that none of the economists, political scientists, journalists, and others writing about this seem to understand what "game" Trump is playing. Maybe the psychologists understand.


Why would you expect those whos policies are why the US is at this point, to agree with some one trying to change them ?
Worked in china, and the far east in solar and semi conductor industry
What the chinese had was scale and control over their currency.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR6JPrYPiKQ


I don't expect agreement but various people with some kind of theory understanding don't seem to have an explanation for these policies, statements, or moves, including in the administration. This is what's so tragicomic. But other narcissistic bully types seem to have some mutual admiration.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby windwalker on Mon May 20, 2019 9:40 pm

This is what's so tragicomic. But other narcissistic bully types seem to have some mutual admiration.


project much ::)

You and some others seem to conveniently leave out all the others who don't agree with the
past polices that have brought the US to this point, and do agree with the actions being taken now...

you know,,,the narcissistic bully types, who seem to have a different opinion from those whose past policies
didnt work...

They are now trying to address it in a period of time were the US economy is relatively healthy using
a tool that impacts the Chinese in a way that they will understand and can not ignore.

Regardless of whether one agrees with Trump, or not, the trade imbalance among other things is not sustainable,
past administrations talked of addressing it..

This one is addressing it, very directly.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 20, 2019 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby gzregorz on Mon May 20, 2019 9:40 pm

It seems to me that we are arguing facts vs ideology.

Or we are saying USA great, China weak and therefore the US wins.

Sorry guys but few are buying it.

Of course the US has has a stronger economy but tariffs just mean prices went up and we pay more here in the US.

Yes, your MAGA hat went from $10 to $12 but it is still being made in China.
Last edited by gzregorz on Mon May 20, 2019 9:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby windwalker on Mon May 20, 2019 10:00 pm

gzregorz wrote:It seems to me that we are arguing facts vs ideology.

Or we are saying USA great, China weak and therefore the US wins.

Sorry guys but few are buying it.

Of course the US has has a stronger economy but tariffs just mean prices went up and we pay more here in the US.

Yes, your MAGA has went from $10 to $12.


"your maga" cant give it up can you.....expected...

the only ones arguing about ideology, are the ones inserting it "your maga" within every post
never really about polices and effects....or other suggested solution sets....

The importers and exporters will adjust first as will the manufacturer
attempting to keep their sales. They understand that others can will step in to fill the gaps.

not about wining or losing....
worked in industries were they were directly affected
by the imbalance.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby windwalker on Mon May 20, 2019 10:03 pm

Some talk about facts....yep facts are good
lets see


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL-XB7rw4OM
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby Michael on Tue May 21, 2019 3:19 am

That's totally untrue. China produces more engineers and scientists per year than the US ever has.


That's a myth. They do not produce more of the same kind of engineers and scientists as America or other Western countries. Until recently, almost all their STEM grads went to school in the West.
Last edited by Michael on Tue May 21, 2019 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby Steve James on Tue May 21, 2019 5:28 am

It is true that Chinese engineers get their training in the West. I taught at a technology school, and there were many Chinese and Indian science and math teachers. As you know, some are calling for limiting their numbers. We are simply not producing enough scientists, mathematicians, and technologists.

Anyway, afa the argument that "he's doing something about it". The question is the method and whether it works. So far, the strategy has been tariffs and a trade war. As noted, who says that a trade war is good for anyone? China will just make US goods more expensive. The average American buys more Chinese goods than the average Chinese buys American. Chinese tech companies that buy American hardware will simply raise prices.

Trade wars don't fix trade imbalances. It's easy to impose a tariff. That is not equivalent to a "great" deal or any deal. But, no matter the result, victory will be declared. And, there'll be no way to tell the difference.

I have always tried to buy American made. I disagree with Trump about a minimum wage, and don't think American workers are overpaid. I think low wages and poor working conditions are part of the reason China produces so much. I don't agree that we have to match them, and it'd only be going backward.

The support for these strategies is purely ideological. There might be some positive effects, such as the need to buy American. But, that could be done now without tariffs or Trump.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby gzregorz on Tue May 21, 2019 6:27 am

"your maga" cant give it up can you.....expected...


It's the truth brother. All that crap you see at his rallies is made in China and yet all they do is scapegoat China.

Oh the irony!

Give up nothing. You are getting the filtered version. Be happy about that.

All those people go those rallies and shop at discount stores buying most of their other stuff from China and have been conned into thinking that China is the reason they aren't rich.

No is was the destruction of the unions, tax cuts for the wealthy and Reaganomics that is the reason they aren't rich.

The reason that 60 cents will do nothing for them is that the cost of living has shot up much more than $3 a day and China had nothing to do with that.

China didn't decide to have MAGA gear made in China, Trump decided that.

Yes Trump is [email protected]#$ing his supporters in the azz, taking their votes, getting rich off the whole process and blaming China for the fact that nothing will change for them.
Last edited by gzregorz on Tue May 21, 2019 6:48 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby Steve James on Tue May 21, 2019 7:11 am

I really wonder how much American goods that the Chinese buy as opposed to their American counterparts and Chinese (Mexican, Thailand, Malaysian) goods. I'm not an economist, but I think the "imbalance" is precisely that. I.e., we buy shitloads of Chinese merchandise at low prices, and the Chinese hardly buy shit from us. And, what they do buy, they put into products (like Huawei phones) that they sell back to us at lower prices.

Yes, it seems like a good idea to even that imbalance out somehow. I understand that if we don't buy their goods it will affect the Chinese economy. But, it's the American consumer and Chinese worker who have benefited. If I were Chinese, however, I would simply look for other markets and opportunities elsewhere. Americans aren't the only customers or providers. Other countries are making agreements with China.

Not to mention, iinm, the US is in debt to China, not the other way around. Have we saved enough from the tariffs to pay off our debt?
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Re: Trump's Trade War

Postby Bao on Tue May 21, 2019 7:23 am

Michael wrote:That's a myth. They do not produce more of the same kind of engineers and scientists as America or other Western countries. Until recently, almost all their STEM grads went to school in the West.


Not exactly everyone, but probably generally true. My wife went to a technology college in Shanghai 20 years ago and received a very good and internationally viable education in chemistry. All practical, not theory only (Yes, I read your post before you edited it). This kind of highly practical education though is mostly aimed for a certain industry and is often planned with and at least partially funded by Western corporations that do have production and other interests in the country.
Last edited by Bao on Tue May 21, 2019 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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