you can't sustain your peak accomplishment years

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Re: you can't sustain your peak accomplishment years

Postby Michael on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:15 pm

Peacedog wrote:Bastards even tried to make me pay for it. I got out of that one thanks to my CO. It was labeled a "mission essential" use of equipment.

Another thing I can't understand: making guys pay for their equipment. I think it's totally outrageous.

If you're getting shot at and you drop your whatever, how are you responsible to pay for it? Do they make you pay hospital bills when you get perforated by enemy fire?

I wonder if there have been any good court cases about this? I would argue I'm under orders and not responsible, especially in war or combat. I really think I could win that up to SCOTUS.

I never heard about this shit happening in the Marines, only the Army.
Diversity is our strength. Wait, I mean ignorance is our strength. Err no, war is peace. Freedom is definitely slavery.
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Re: you can't sustain your peak accomplishment years

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:45 pm

Michael wrote:
Peacedog wrote:Bastards even tried to make me pay for it. I got out of that one thanks to my CO. It was labeled a "mission essential" use of equipment.

Another thing I can't understand: making guys pay for their equipment. I think it's totally outrageous.

Depends on the unit and mission. If I remember its line of duty yes or no... shit cost money
Depending on your rank you may not understand that COs basically sign for and are responsible for all equipment in their unit
this hand recipted down to end users...

Change of CMD was a PITA back in the day,,,,as everything in the unit was accounted for.
bullets, explosives, fule, equipment ect cost money


If you're getting shot at and you drop your whatever, how are you responsible to pay for it? Do they make you pay hospital bills when you get perforated by enemy fire? Comes down to line of duty yes or no......

I wonder if there have been any good court cases about this? I would argue I'm under orders and not responsible,


especially in war or combat.
I really think I could win that up to SCOTUS.

You would lose


I never heard about this shit happening in the Marines, only the Army.


you might want to understand what happens and why

Image

When Army property is lost or damaged, financial responsibility can fall upon the Soldier or Civilian to whom the property was issued.

Financial Liability Investigation of Property Loss, or FLIPL, is the procedure the Army uses to recover the cost of lost or damaged property. Under Army Regulation 735-5, financial liability ordinarily will not exceed one month?'s base pay. However, in certain cases, such as the loss of personal arms or equipment, or damage to government housing, a Soldier can be held liable for the entire loss.


https://www.army.mil/article/122778/fin ... hould_know


The FLIPL procedure begins when an appointing authority, usually a battalion commander, receives a DD200, or FLIPL form for loss or damage to Army property. He or she reviews the document to determine if there needs to be an investigation or if the cause of the loss is apparent. If an investigation is required, a financial liability officer, or FLO, is appointed.

"The FLO's job is to determine if negligence is involved, who caused the property loss, and the amount of the loss," explained Daniel Haws, attorney-advisor, Administrative Law Division, Staff Judge Advocate Office. "If the FLO recommends liability against a Soldier, that individual has seven days to submit a rebuttal explaining why the liability is not appropriate based on the standards for FLIPL."


@peacedog,

Thanks,,,we had to wear the old style mask for 8hrs at least one day out of a month...In field training,,,MOPP level 1 one was trained as part of the exercise could be up to a couple days using MOPP3 was not over 12hrs...Again depends on unit and mission.
Tread heads,,Tankers from what I understand have a central air filtration within their tanks..
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: you can't sustain your peak accomplishment years

Postby Michael on Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:07 am

windwalker wrote:You would lose

you might want to understand what happens and why



Yeah, I understand what's happening and why.

Financial responsibility for negligence has to be proven, as described in the article. They gave damage to housing as an example, so let's use that. How can a person be considered negligent for their housing? Because they accepted living there under a condition of responsibility, so if they tear down a wall inside of it without permission, they're responsible. What if a SCUD knocks down the wall, are they negligent then? Probably not. See the difference?

What if you crash an F-14? Do you pay for it based on whether or not you're negligent? No. You may be punished in some other way, according to the UCMJ, but that's clearly punishment in an Article 15 or 31 proceeding, and not this hidden punishment of financial loss outside those legal avenues.

As I see it, the financial responsibility is being put onto the service member under duress, under orders, under threat of punishment, and it is then being enforced as a punishment under the UCMJ. And here's a concept from military law: you may not punish a service member for alleged offenses to the UCMJ, or otherwise restrict their leave and liberty based on an alleged offense. Financial punishments would be included.

So probably the legal rationale for financial responsibility is based on dereliction of duty, which is one of the so-called punitive articles in the UCMJ, and therefore punishing a service member for an alleged offense outside of Article 15 or Article 31 proceedings is not correct.
Last edited by Michael on Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Diversity is our strength. Wait, I mean ignorance is our strength. Err no, war is peace. Freedom is definitely slavery.
Michael
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Re: you can't sustain your peak accomplishment years

Postby windwalker on Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:14 am

And here's a concept from military law I'm very familiar with because I used it to end extra-judicial punishment at Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.


Beautiful place was stationed at Schofield Barracks , PCS from 2nd ID
in Korea, to 25th ID in Hawaii

Financial responsibility for negligence has to be proven, as described in the article. They gave damage to housing as an example, so let's use that. How can a person be considered negligent for their housing? Because they accepted living there under a condition of responsibility, so if they tear down a wall inside of it without permission, they're responsible. What if a SCUD knocks down the wall, are they negligent then? Probably not. See the difference?


after 20yrs of service
Didnt see the difference, knew the difference
Soldiers in some of the units I was in were charged directly for things they lost
or damaged.

Hawaii, a key place for me in my CMA journey
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: you can't sustain your peak accomplishment years

Postby Michael on Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:54 am

Yeah, Hawaii was wonderful and beautiful. I have a lot of good memories from there.
Diversity is our strength. Wait, I mean ignorance is our strength. Err no, war is peace. Freedom is definitely slavery.
Michael
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Posts: 12414
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:05 pm
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