MoH

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MoH

Postby Strange on Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:03 pm



:o :o
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: MoH

Postby Peacedog on Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:05 pm

For a team guy, I can imagine nothing more terrifying than dying alone. That was a bad day. And a good example of why the award is almost always posthumous.

Til Valhall MSgt Chapman.
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Re: MoH

Postby Strange on Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:50 pm

first of all (correct me if i am wrong), forward air traffic controllers are not suppose to be charging bunkers like a berserker.
second, MSgt Chapman... he suppose to be dead!... and he got up again!!... and somehow decided that he was still in the fight!!!
i guess, now i know why they ask to see the body of dangerous and worthy opponents
you need to stick or shoot their beating hearts before they be dead

PS if you really do need to charge down a bunker, for goodness sakes throw a few grenades first man!
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: MoH

Postby Peacedog on Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:40 am

Combat controllers have been firmly in the SOCOM camp since the beginning of the WOT. They are USAF in name only at this point and this causes a problem with their home service. Even Combat Weather has been redubbed Special Reconnaissance. For those not familiar with DoDisms, SOCOM is essentially its own fifth branch of the military. So yeah, charging a bunker isn't exactly out of character at this point.

That said, a lot of what happened in that fight is a direct result of the "no surrender" approach that has come out of fighting the WOT. You cannot surrender to these knuckle dragging savages. Being captured alive by them is FAR worse than dying. You will suffer in some of the most horrible ways imaginable before you die and you will not be recovered alive. So, as long as you are still breathing, keep fighting.
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Re: MoH

Postby Steve James on Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:22 am

There are several famous incidents in WW2 where one soldier charges multiple machine gun emplacements, killing the operators, while sustaining grievous injuries. The story of future Senator Daniel Inouye is just one. In his case, he only lost an arm. But, afa why he did something so heroic (or insane), he says the reason was that he got pissed at seeing his men being killed.

Chapman was awarded two. The military doesn't give them away for being brave, but for conspicuously ignoring one's safety in order to save others. I.e., a SEAL won't get an MoH for doing his job, even if he's killed. If the Chapman incident is the one I think it is. This was a rescue mission and more than one helicopter was shot down in the process, and there were many casualties. Anyway, my point is that self-sacrifice is not like berserking. It takes a number of people coming back and saying "We're alive because of that guy. We saw what he did."

Chapman's actions were watched live and recorded on tape. It must have been an excruciating and frustrating experience, even now for his family. But, he certainly deserves all the honors and deepest respect.
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Re: MoH

Postby Michael on Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:05 pm

So dropping six guys into a snowy slope (reduced mobility favors the larger group) to face 30+ is considered....correct? Tactical? Gung ho? I don't get it.
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Re: MoH

Postby windwalker on Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:07 pm

Michael wrote:So dropping six guys into a snowy slope (reduced mobility favors the larger group) to face 30+ is considered....correct? Tactical? Gung ho? I don't get it.



Probably a lot more going on then what is revelied

One thing some may not realize because of the IR tech, this took place in the dark at night,
Speculation, the resolution shown publicly is not what was viewed by the operators as the narration talks about things that are not clear in what was shown.. Must have been frustrating for the drone operators watching...

used to have a group under me that worked on TOW anti tank missile system day/night sights/ control systems.

Using Flir ir tech there really is no way to camouflage, the image is very much the same as what is shown in the clip,,,although it can be reversed ie things that are hot, show white against a dark background, with the snow maybe its better to view it the other way,,,dark is hot, cooler things are white...

Image
https://connectingvets.radio.com/articl ... t-tech-sgt

In March of 2002 on a snow-covered Afghanistan mountain, Chapman and a handful of SEALs fought to take the summit in a desperate attempt to save a teammate. Outnumbered by Al Qaeda fighters, Chapman led the charge and was shot multiple times. Thought to be dead, the SEAL team started to retreat, but Chapman regained consciousness.

Alone with the enemy closing in on three sides, Schilling describes Chapman's heroic firefight and the one-man stand that saved the lives of 23 fellow Special Operators.


The author

Dan Schilling is an author and former combat controller, with over 20 years of combat and clandestine mission experience. He played a critical role in Operation Gothic Serpent which later inspired the movie "Black Hawk Down." He later founded and served as the first commander of two special operations squadrons, whose name and purpose still remains classified.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: MoH

Postby Strange on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:04 am

i know what you mean when you say knuckle dragging savages,
but for me "learned" religious extremists are worse, if you know what i mean

but i don't think fear of torture entered into his mind.
he was on another uncommon level of duty, courage and loyalty

I heard that what the solder seek is an honorable death
but i know you are too sophisticated for that kind of bullcrap, Michael :D
Last edited by Strange on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: MoH

Postby Michael on Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:01 pm

Strange wrote:I heard that what the solder seek is an honorable death
but i know you are too sophisticated for that kind of bullcrap, Michael :D

Luckily boot camp squeezed all that nobility out of me. ;)
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Re: MoH

Postby windwalker on Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:47 am

Strange wrote:
I heard that what the solder seek is an honorable death


Wonder where you're heard this.
Actually this better reflects the mindset

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.

George S. Patton
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MoH

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:52 am

Speaking to soldiers in the modern era, during conflict what they sought most was to get back home in one piece as soon as possible.

Now, maybe, supposedly, romantic "warrior codes" would suggest that there is no greater honor for a individual fighter than to die in service of the battle, but those things were written by the commanders and profiteers, not the grunts. The Japanese seemed committed to it, at least part of the time, and I suppose the Norse, but that's lost today.

Of course, in basic training, we all recited the code of conduct at night and got all misty eyed dreaming of the opportunity to sacrifice ourselves or brave torture without revealing anything to the enemy. But we were stupid teenagers, reaching to build a better life out of ANYTHING and that happened to be the military at the moment.
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Re: MoH

Postby windwalker on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:13 am

Speaking to soldiers in the modern era, during conflict what they sought most was to get back home in one piece as soon as possible.


Donno, the grunt units I served in, the main objective was mission accomplishment.
The lethality due to technology and training by US forces does not seem to be understood by most not in the military.

It allows much smaller units down to individual soldiers to overcome much larger forces.

many units depending on mission know exactly what their survivability rate is. the goal being to maximize one's own survivability while reducing the enemies.

No one expects to be injured or dead, until they are.
Lots of training and conditioning goes into allowing one to function understanding this while still accomplishing the mission.

For many it's after the mission is over that's the hardest
part.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MoH

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:21 am

oragami_itto wrote:. The Japanese seemed committed to it, at least part of the time, and I suppose the Norse, but that's lost today.
.

After some bottles of sake(for the Japanese). And mugs (or maybe barrels) of mead and “special” mushrooms the berserker was easily let out...There are some eyewitness reports how some norsemen in berserker mood couldn’t hold them selfs and went berserk on each other before their ships had come ashore.....There was some Viking age chess pieces found at an excavation site on an British island, showing the peasants pieces as berserkers chewing on their shields.....Yes of course the norsemen had their Valhalla to go to if they where slain in battle, and Valhalla was a nice place with good food and plenty of mead and partying. Don’t know if tha Japanese had a similar desired place to go to if slain...And still today some terrorists believe in a heavenly afterlife if they go out in a blast
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Re: MoH

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:27 am

Um, this was a rescue mission. Everyone would want to be rescued. There's a famous incident from the Vietnam War called "BAT 21." In Somalia, there was Black Hawk Down. More men died trying to rescue than the one or two who needed rescuing in the first place.
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Re: MoH

Postby Peacedog on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:30 am

"For many it's after the mission is over that's the hardest part."

+10000 on this one.

And I am not talking about PTSD or injury related issues either.

For those who have ever engaged in an intense life, coming back to a world of 24 hour pay-per-view, lack of accountability/non-judgemental worldviews, and a "do whatever" attitude is like nails on a chalkboard. And few things are as intense as warfare.

Nothing ever comes close. Not ever. Everything is a shade of gray after that.

And keeping it together when it comes to something as banal as making money, holding down a job you don't really care about, paying bills on time, etc becomes a real problem.
Last edited by Peacedog on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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