the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

If you're a fat cat who is primarily "pro business" ... you need more consumers with more dollars in their wallets. "Enlightened self interest" cannot happen without consumer spending.

Michael wrote:Because the government has shut down the economy, I think they should give us some Donald Dollars and some Mnuchin Money, but I seriously doubt it will happen, although Wall Street, Boeing, etc., will get handouts, mom & pops will be crushed, and there will be new consolidations and public-private partnerships for the big boys once the virus has cleared away.

Should the companies go out of business , What companies do you expect the workers to work for when.
the virus situation is over.

From my reading they’re very concerned about the smaller businesses.

From my reading they’re very concerned about the smaller businesses.

I do think Trump is right to keep saying this. I hope everything he's suggested that can be done for small businesses is done, such as Small Business Administration loans, tax breaks, and free money/grants, whatever it takes.

Should the companies go out of business , What companies do you expect the workers to work for when.

It's a big problem that gets to the heart of globalization. If we now play by the rules that Fortune 100, G7, Davos, NGO's, etc. told us is the new service economy without manufacturing in most of the West, the new 1099 gig economy with no job security or benefits whatsoever, "those jobs are never coming back to America", then the multi-national corporations that pay tiny amounts of tax compared to a wage-earner, that have moved their manufacturing to a country because it has almost no human rights, workers' rights, or pollution controls, those Fortune 500's concerns, which are not its workers, do not deserve priority consideration from the government during this crisis.

The primary consideration of the MNC's has been profits without morality and without long-term benefit to their host country or their workers, so they do not deserve bail-outs from those host countries, although their workers do. Let the board of directors fend for themselves, but give their workers 100% unemployment benefits until new companies with morality and loyalty replace the sell-outs that gave technology to the enemies of their host countries, and made the people of their host countries vulnerable to their enemies for something as basic as surgical masks. Politicians were of course complicit; globalization required their consent.

China's state media Xinhua suggested/threatened that the US dependence on China for surgical masks and medical supplies could be exploited.

Translation of Xinhua article wrote:If China retaliates against the United States at this time, in addition to announcing a travel ban on the United States, it will also announce strategic control over medical products and ban exports to the United States. Then the United States will be caught in the ocean of new crown viruses.

According to the US CDC officials, most masks in the United States are made in China and imported from China. If China bans the export of masks to the United States, the United States will fall into the mask shortage, and the most basic measures to prevent the new crown virus are Can’t do it.

Also according to the US CDC officials, most of the drugs in the United States are imported, and some drugs are imported from Europe. However, Europe also places the production base of these drugs in China, so more than 90% of the US imported drugs are Related to China. The implication is that at this time, as long as China announces that its drugs are as domestic as possible and banned exports, the United States will fall into the hell of the new crown pneumonia epidemic.

If China retaliates against the US, it'll really be a retaliation against the prez. China is helping Italy, Greece, and other European countries.

Focusing on small businesses is fine, as an abstract theory. A business exists to make a profit. They need consumers to buy their goods or service. Real estate agencies are often small businesses, as are pawn shops, gyms, etc. What people realize is that grocery stores are essential and restaurants are not.

I agree that people need jobs. The gov't could pay them to work. In Denmark, the plan is to pay companies according to how many employees they continue to employ. I.e., if a company lays off all its employees, it won't get anything. Otoh, if it keeps them on the payroll, the gov't will pay 90% of employee salaries.

Anyway, there are still lots of people who are against unionized labor and even a minimum wage because both are bad for business.

In general, the people who complain about handouts are the first with their hands out, and demand help first.

let me finish the sentence -
If China retaliates against the US, it'll really be a retaliation against the prez.
he is the one that has been fighting for a trade deal with less dependence on China
manufacturing. Let's give him up and we can return to the status quo of being in
their grips for essential items like surgical masks. They will be compassionate to us.

I heard that on FB.. "China is doing it because Trump whipped their asses on the trade deal." That's why he called it a Dem hoax and fake news. Why'd he do that?

roger hao wrote:let me fusinish the sentence -
If China retaliates against the US, it'll really be a retaliation against the prez.
he is the one that has been fighting for a trade deal with less dependence on China
manufacturing. Let's give him up and we can return to the status quo of being in
their grips for essential items like surgical masks. They will be compassionate to us.

I think sometimes people don't understand.

Worked for Cannon USA...semiconductor / good company btw

It was understood that in the US no none Japanese would never become part of the top leadership.
If a technical problem reached a certain point, they would wall off the "tool" and call in the guys
from Japan to fix it....Not because the US team lacked the skill sets, it was to protect their IP

Korea, Taiwan, ect are much the same way....It seems to be only the US thats expected to be free and open promoted by
those in the industry who've benefited from a free and open society using the same openness against it.

Never quite understand how they don't understand when what they've benefited from ends, it will be because of their actions

windwalker wrote:Should the companies go out of business , What companies do you expect the workers to work for when.
the virus situation is over.

I expect free market capitalism to resolve this issue. Previously existing monopolies will have been broken up. Existing markets devastated. There will be tremendous demand and entrepreneurs will step in. The traditional free market process of creative destruction will be at play.

Michael wrote:
According to the US CDC officials, most masks in the United States are made in China and imported from China. If China bans the export of masks to the United States, the United States will fall into the mask shortage, and the most basic measures to prevent the new crown virus are Can’t do it.

If I was king of China in this scenario, I would absolutely take this action.

We are currently watching a philosophical war play out, with democracy on one side and autocracy on the other. Democracy has made the better argument for most of my lifetime. But over the past few years, the autocratic model is winning. The Chinese model has produced faster economic growth and represented a vastly more responsible model of government than the US model. Chinese trust of their own government is higher than in the US and internationally, China is not seen as a more responsible global citizen.

"America first" has created a vacuum in international leadership and China has been happy to step in.

Understand, I DO NO APPROVE OF THE CHINESE MODEL. I feel more like a Cassandra screaming into the wind. We are losing the battle of idea.

Go back an re-read Plato's Republic. Plato predicted the democratic model would fail in precisely this way. It hasn't failed yet, but we are definitely losing at this time.

bailewen wrote:

Michael wrote:
According to the US CDC officials, most masks in the United States are made in China and imported from China. If China bans the export of masks to the United States, the United States will fall into the mask shortage, and the most basic measures to prevent the new crown virus are Can’t do it.

If I was king of China in this scenario, I would absolutely take this action.

What do you mean, that China should ban the export of masks to America?

If yes, how about medicine?

I feel you on the problems of democracy, but if you answered yes to any of the above, can you explain a little more about interrupting normal export of medical supplies in the middle of a health crisis?

bailewen wrote:

windwalker wrote:Should the companies go out of business , What companies do you expect the workers to work for when.
the virus situation is over.

I expect free market capitalism to resolve this issue. Previously existing monopolies will have been broken up. Existing markets devastated. There will be tremendous demand and entrepreneurs will step in. The traditional free market process of creative destruction will be at play.

I see large corporations benefiting from new bills introduced to 'save the economy'. CEOs paying their bonuses with it. Mom n pop stores forced to close and big corps absorbing their businesses.

I'm very cynical about that as ewll, but at the same time, we cannot have the airline industry (among others) just going away via laissez-faire. Supposedly some of the loan assistance is tied to making sure cargo planes still deliver to all areas.

Ha, why is Boeing getting billions of dollars? It had been losing money on the stock market, and was threatening to reduce stockholder dividends. Btw, those dividends given to investors are the primary reason for the "stimulus." Also, why give taxpayer dollars to companies that don't pay taxes? Why are their profits used to sustain the company for a month. I can see that military contracts have to go on, even NASA, etc. But that requires employees being at work. If the employees are at work, the work can go on. Anyway, this goes for Amazon, Exxon, and other companies that make a profit but don't pay taxes.

If we are giving companies money to employ people, we could cut out the middleman and just give people money. There'll still be people who want airplanes, so there'll always be someone there to fulfill that desire. I.e., demand for necessities and luxuries are constant.

meeks wrote:

bailewen wrote:

windwalker wrote:Should the companies go out of business , What companies do you expect the workers to work for when.
the virus situation is over.

I expect free market capitalism to resolve this issue. Previously existing monopolies will have been broken up. Existing markets devastated. There will be tremendous demand and entrepreneurs will step in. The traditional free market process of creative destruction will be at play.

I see large corporations benefiting from new bills introduced to 'save the economy'. CEOs paying their bonuses with it. Mom n pop stores forced to close and big corps absorbing their businesses.

I believe some of this was directly addressed in the bill
Yep small businesses especially in service industries hit hard...
not looking good....have to see how it works out...

While the C-suites of America’s top airlines are asking the U.S. government for what could amount to more than $50 billion in financial aid, many CEOs are giving up their salaries in a show of solidarity for the critical times we are all living in.

https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/ ... -a-crisis/

https://observer.com/2020/04/us-retail- ... -proposal/

Yang says we need a 2k per month per person “dividend” during Covid 19 because many of the jobs gone are now gone for good.