The Violent Right

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Re: The Violent Right

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:16 am

what about the left


Start your own thread, keep count, remember to show where the shooting itself is connected directly to the candidate or their goals.
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:26 am

windwalker wrote:
Steve James wrote:Funny. The nation and people were never more unified than after a single Muslim (nutjob) attack.

The September 11 attacks (also referred to as 9/11)[a] were a series of four coordinated terrorist attacks by the Islamic terrorist group al-Qaeda[

Oh well, the reason nothing will be done is because many people agree or identify with the ideas and ideology, but just say they disagree with the method. They say the same for Trump. I.e., they pardon him because his heart is in the right place.


Ooh, you mean there were four attacks on that day and I said a single attack. My bad. Living in NYC on that day, it felt to me like one attack. Still, the country felt unified.

See, but as in your previous post, one guy kills twenty people in a mall, and you come back with how evil Antifa is. When Antifa wants to be evil to guys like him. And, Antifa is not even another religion, ethnic group, or from another country.
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:35 am

oragami_itto wrote:
what about the left


Start your own thread, keep count, remember to show where the shooting itself is connected directly to the candidate or their goals.




To be clear do left wing nut jobs count
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby Michael on Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:18 am

This kind of talk from reporters pours fuel on the fire and might be a dog whistle for right wing violence. This is from CNN contributor Reza Azlan's Twitter.

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Re: The Violent Right

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:10 am

windwalker wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:
what about the left


Start your own thread, keep count, remember to show where the shooting itself is connected directly to the candidate or their goals.




To be clear do left wing nut jobs count


You can count whatever you like. I'm counting people who are demonstrably motivated by Trump and the Republicans. Not simply white nationalists, not simply people that happen to be republican and also violent, but incidents where Trump/Republican rhetoric is easily shown to be a motivating factor.
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:18 am

oragami_itto wrote:
You can count whatever you like. I'm counting people who are demonstrably motivated by Trump and the Republicans. Not simply white nationalists, not simply people that happen to be republican and also violent, but incidents where Trump/Republican rhetoric is easily shown to be a motivating factor.



Thanks for clearing that up.

In this case the guy AKA "nutjob" was writing things like that way before Trump was elected.

Does he still count?
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:13 am

He definitely counts.

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Re: The Violent Right

Postby Trick on Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:51 am

grzegorz wrote:
If a Muslim posted hate of white Christians moments before he shot up a bunch of Christians at a picnic no would be questioning whether or not he was a racist.

My the FBI if your listening is an attempt at American humor as a way of showing my disgust for the said organization.

Grzegorz. In every other post you post you are very focused on race and differences to the point I begin to read between the lines in your posts, and there you say you actually like the idea of clashes of race ??

However Islam is not about race, neither is Christianity. Maybe some believe so but they are very few. Even that the media try hard to make us believe it’s about race, few believe it.


As for the alphabet organizations, I’ll guess the CIA is a much eviler(Swenglish?) and powerful one
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby Trick on Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:04 am

windwalker wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:
what about the left


Start your own thread, keep count, remember to show where the shooting itself is connected directly to the candidate or their goals.




To be clear do left wing nut jobs count

There can be no Right without Left.............(and vice versa)..........it’s a forum of the ICMA’s.....Yin &Yang’ish stuff
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby windwalker on Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:37 am

Trick wrote:There can be no Right without Left.............(and vice versa)..........it’s a forum of the ICMA’s.....Yin &Yang’ish stuff


kind of misses the point....they dont care about the killing if its not on or for their side....

You can count whatever you like. I'm counting people who are demonstrably motivated by Trump and the Republicans. Not simply white nationalists, not simply people that happen to be republican and also violent, but incidents where Trump/Republican rhetoric is easily shown to be a motivating factor.


nor do they follow or listen to facts showing many of the nutjobs have been nutjobs for awhile....

Doesnt matter......

Could be anything that sets them off, nutjobs are nutjobs partly because they act out, many posted and complain about things on
the net until went off...


Some cities in the US more people are shot in a weekend then killed in this shooting....
just doesn't seem to make the news, doesn't fit the narrative.

CNN acknowledged Monday night that the mass shooter in Dayton, Ohio, appeared to have “extreme” left-wing views, based on a Twitter feed that has been widely linked to the gunman.


"nutjob" not counted , wrong side....
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby Steve James on Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:47 am

"nutjob" not counted , wrong side....


Are you asking for a numbers count of mass shootings based on ideology. The Dayton shooter might have voted for Hillary, but his sister was one of his victims. If his social media accounts have him threatening or advocating "getting rid of" someone or other, then we may know. But, just because someone voted for Trump doesn't mean it inspired his shooting.

However, that doesn't mean that there's no answer to "why" he did it and what he expected to attain by it. For the last 40 years, there were plenty incidents of people "going postal" and shooting up his work place, or politicians. Nutjobs, but the motives were clear. Not that long ago, mass shooters were almost always on suicide missions. We'd know that they shot up the school or church, but we'd puzzle over the motives. Was it drugs, alcohol, mental illness, drugs for mental illness, bullying, comic books, violent movies, child abuse, etc., etc.

The problem now is not violent people or violence in general or even human deaths. There's no need to argue that more people in total may have been killed in some inner city than in the El Paso mall. Yep, and more died in car crashes, from heart attacks, drowning, or falling in the bathroom. Nope. they don't get much press.

Otoh, there's a difference between a senior citizen passing out and crashing his car into a crowd and a guy yelling God is great running his car into that same crowd. There's a difference between a plane crashing into the Empire State building because of low clouds and someone piloting a plane into a building to bring it down.

That difference, as you pointed out, is not a matter of race or religion, but ideology. The ideology is the reason. Calling it "right" or "left" doesn't do it justice. You can't fix a problem that you can't name. Of course, the shooters in these last incidents are quite similar. If they were Muslim, though, what would be the suggested solution? Should we agree that, if --God forbid-- it should happen, we'll just say "Oh well, look at the crime rate in ___."
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:11 am

windwalker wrote:
"nutjob" not counted , wrong side....


You're free to contact whatever you like. But I wouldn't count Dayton even if it was a Trump voter. There is nothing connecting his politics to the act.

Likewise with the Gilroy shooter, his only provable connection is to white supremacy in general, which just LOOKS like right wing Trump support.

In El Paso and Gilroy, immigrants were specifically targeted, which directly connects to Trump's political agenda and rhetoric. He has encouraged people to shoot immigrants.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/trum ... -1.7622791
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby windwalker on Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:32 am

oragami_itto wrote:
windwalker wrote:
"nutjob" not counted , wrong side....


You're free to contact whatever you like. But I wouldn't count Dayton even if it was a Trump voter. There is nothing connecting his politics to the act.

Likewise with the Gilroy shooter, his only provable connection is to white supremacy in general, which just LOOKS like right wing Trump support.

In El Paso and Gilroy, immigrants were specifically targeted, which directly connects to Trump's political agenda and rhetoric. He has encouraged people to shoot immigrants.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/trum ... -1.7622791



Good example of confirmation bias.

The writing attributed to the shooter in Texas specifically saide not to attribute his actions to Trump and that he has felt this way for a number of years. It also mention that he felt no matter what happened it would be attributed as so by the fake press.

Whatever his political leanings were or ideology the bottom line is he acted on them. In a free society thoughts and speech are protected.

Actions depending on what they are are not.

One side demonizing the current president for political advantage. Animal farm times


The nutjob had issues, I'd say there is something wrong with connecting his issues for political gain as some of the politicians are doing now.

The fact that some are focusing on this to the exclusion of everything else, seems to be what this nutjob and others nutjobs do tying it to their own inner issues.

In all societies this happens less so in controlled societies. "Redflaging" by people, software developed to track or control speech by companies.

Freedom is very tenuous.
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby Steve James on Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:16 am

the shooter in Texas specifically saide not to attribute his actions to Trump and that he has felt this way for a number of years.


How exactly did he feel? What did he do because of how he "felt"? I agree that his feelings didn't start because of Trump. I don't think Trump can turn anyone into a mass murderer. He can encourage people to beat up protesters at his rallies, but that's not the same. It seems that it's just this nutjob's ideology that is the problem. How do you fight it, if you can't even name it?

The fact that some are focusing on this to the exclusion of everything else, seems to be what this nutjob and others nutjobs do tying it to their own inner issues.


Excluding everything else? He killed 20 people because of his beliefs. THAT is the problem. What was bigger news that day? We agree, I suppose, that mass murder is wrong. Maybe it's unavoidable in a war. Even so, it makes the news. But, deliberately killing innocents is terrorism committed by some "nutjob" with a specific "nutjob" ideology. Yep, it's older than Trump, but that's irrelevant.

Muslims who murder other Muslims over ideology are the same as _____ who murder other _____ over ideology. As I've pointed out before, the irony is that they kill each other claiming it's for their own sake. I could agree that this could be a kind of mental illness. I think agreeing with the ideology, instead of condemning it, just enables it.
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Re: The Violent Right

Postby windwalker on Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:45 pm

"My ideology has not changed for several years," the text said. "My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president.


"I [am] putting this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case.

"I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump's rhetoric."


"The media is infamous for fake news," the manifesto said. "Their reaction to this attack will likely just confirm that."


excerpts from what is said he wrote.



main take away:
predates trump,
understands how it will be used.


any laws enacted because of this will tend to affect poor, middle class people over those with means, nutjobs and criminals .

States are responsible for their own gun laws enacted or not by their politicians
they vote in office.
Other means besides guns can be used and have been...
nutjobs are not stupid or uneducated.

"redflag" often mentioned enables the government to take actions before any act has been committed based on "TBD"
The "dark web" mentioned already known and used by those who feel a need, unless actions similar to what China uses made in part possible by
technologies created by "google" and others can not be controlled unless those that provide the technologies are in favor
of doing so..

So far, this has not been the case,,,in fact its the opposite which allows whats called the dark web to exist.

In time expect this to be regulated....
by the government. for the same reasons that China and other gov. find it necessary to do.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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