Hong Kong Protests

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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:14 pm

Posted because it's Illegal.

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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Bao wrote:
grzegorz wrote:No thanks.

I would like to see the videos of how the PRC dissects Falun Gong followers and sells off their organs.


If you believe their own made up fairy tales you are nothing but a moron. That has never ever happened.


You can insult me all you want it doesn't make whatever you are claiming to be true.

The next time you want to get emotional on me perhaps you should seek out a therapist.

Or you could start writing about the wonders of FG on your blog while living in China and see how that turns out.

The Guardian - Back to home

China is harvesting organs from detainees, tribunal concludes

Victims include imprisoned followers of Falun Gong movement, China Tribunal says

Owen Bowcott

Mon 17 Jun 2019 08.20 EDT

4 months old

An independent tribunal sitting in London has concluded that the killing of detainees in China for organ transplants is continuing, and victims include imprisoned followers of the Falun Gong movement.

The China Tribunal, chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who was a prosecutor at the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, said in a unanimous determination at the end of its hearings it was “certain that Falun Gong as a source - probably the principal source - of organs for forced organ harvesting”.

“The conclusion shows that very many people have died indescribably hideous deaths for no reason, that more may suffer in similar ways and that all of us live on a planet where extreme wickedness may be found in the power of those, for the time being, running a country with one of the oldest civilisations known to modern man.”

He added: “There is no evidence of the practice having been stopped and the tribunal is satisfied that it is continuing.”

The tribunal has been taking evidence from medical experts, human rights investigators and others.

Among those killed, it has been alleged, are members of religious minorities such as Falun Gong. Persecution of the group began in 1999 after it had attracted tens of millions of followers and came to be seen as a threat to the communist party.

There is less evidence about the treatment of Tibetans, Uighur Muslims and some Christian sects.

China announced in 2014 that it would stop removing organs for transplantation from executed prisoners and has dismissed the claims as politically-motivated and untrue.

The tribunal was initiated by the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (Etac) and its members, all of whom worked without payment, included medical experts.

Waiting times for transplantation offered by hospitals in China were extraordinarily low, the tribunal noted, often only a couple of weeks.

Investigators calling hospitals in China inquiring about transplants for patients, the tribunal said, have in the past been told that the source of some organs were from Falun Gong followers.

Both former Falun Gong and Uighur inmates gave testimony of undergoing repeated medical testing in Chinese jails.

Jennifer Zeng, a Falun Gong activist who was imprisoned for a year in a female labour camp, gave evidence to the China Tribunal about what she said were repeated medical check-ups and blood tests to which inmates were subjected.

She told the Guardian: “On the day we were transferred to the labour camp, we were taken to a medical facility where we underwent physical check-ups. We were interrogated about what diseases we had and I told them I had hepatitis.

“The second time, after about a month in the camp, everyone was handcuffed and put in a van and taken to a huge hospital. That was for a more thorough physical check-up. We were given X-rays. On the third occasion in the camp, they were drawing blood from us. We were all told to line up in the corridor and the test were given.”

Zeng, who fled China in 2001, did not see any direct evidence of forced organ removal but since reading other accounts, she has questioned whether the tests were part of a medical selection process.

In her statement to the tribunal, she said: “Inmates of the labour camp were not allowed to exchange contact details, so there was no way to trace each other after we were released. When anyone disappeared from the camp, I would assume that she was released and had gone home.

“But in reality that cannot be confirmed, as I had no way to trace others after my release and I now fear they might have been taken to a hospital and had their organs removed without consent and thus killed in the process.”

As many as 90,000 transplant operations a year are being carried out in China, the tribunal estimated, a far higher figure than that given by official government sources.

There have been calls for the UK parliament to ban patients from travelling to China for transplant surgery. More than 40 MPs from all parties have backed the motion. Israel, Italy, Spain and Taiwan already enforce such restrictions.

China insists it adheres to international medical standards that require organ donations to be made by consent and without any financial charges. It declined to participate in the tribunal.

Commenting on the claims earlier this year, the Chinese embassy told the Guardian: “The Chinese government always follows the World Health Organization’s guiding principles on human organ transplant, and has strengthened its management on organ transplant in recent years. On 21 March 2007, the Chinese state council enacted the regulation on human organ transplant, providing that human organ donation must be done voluntarily and gratis. We hope that the British people will not be misled by rumours.”

The tribunal heard reports of extraction of kidneys from executed prisoners from as far back as the 1970s. Most of the evidence, however, came from 2000 onwards.

TopicsChinaHuman rightsAsia Pacificnews

© 2019 Guardian News & Media Limited or its affiliated companies. All rights reserved.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... -concludes
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Trick on Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:46 am

grzegorz wrote:Looks like the Moon Festival ain't ending jack.

Some believed it was a flash in the pan caused by outside forces but I think it is clear despite whatever conspiracy theories people pull out of their asses that the Hong Kongers are in it for the long haul. Unlike Trump's army these protesters aren't going anywhere.

Yes, I’m actually not surprised, foreign powers are dead scare of China’s success, those powers are desperate, they now don’t care if they totally wreck HK. ever since the Jesuits sat foot there western imperialism has been the agenda. Now they can’t send their armies there, they learned that during the opium wars. They find clever ways pitting the locals against each other, mainly using the young ones who are naive enough tho wave around the stars’n stripes.


At this HK mess they’ve created, Trump and Greg with friends stand hand in hand singing the star bangled banners...and perhaps god save the queen sometimes too.....and no not the Sex Pistols song ....
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Trick on Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:02 am

Bao wrote:
grzegorz wrote:No thanks.

I would like to see the videos of how the PRC dissects Falun Gong followers and sells off their organs.


If you believe their own made up fairy tales you are nothing but a moron. That has never ever happened.

In the building in Dalian I lived my first seven years my next door neighbor was an Falun going’ist, everyone in the neighborhood knew that. But she was not an Activist Falun Gongist, nothing bad ever happened. Greg is too much into conspiracy theories 8-)
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Trick on Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:10 am

grzegorz wrote:[
Pathetic but nice try.

We disagree who but gives a [email protected]#$?

Who says Swedes are not passive aggressive?

I think yours favorite local IKEA store must already be selling delicious Swedish Christmas ginger crisps. In Sweden there’s a saying that eating Ginger bread/crisps makes you kindhearted. So why not have a try, don’t be an Ebenezer. .....Jingle bells, Jingle all the way, oh how fun it is...8-)
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:07 am

More on FG organ harvesting.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/chin ... s-n1018646


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WORLD

China forcefully harvests organs from detainees, tribunal concludes

China's organ transplant trade is worth $1 billion a year, according to a tribunal. This story contains details some may find distressing.

Chinese doctors perform a kidney transplant operation at the Second Xiangya Hospital of the Central South University in Changsha city, Hunan province.Fu zhiyong / Fu zhiyong - Imaginechina

June 18, 2019, 6:47 AM PDT

By Saphora Smith

LONDON — The organs of members of marginalized groups detained in Chinese prison camps are being forcefully harvested — sometimes when patients are still alive, an international tribunal sitting in London has concluded.

Some of the more than 1.5 million detainees in Chinese prison camps are being killed for their organs to serve a booming transplant trade that is worth some $1 billion a year, concluded the China Tribunal, an independent body tasked with investigating organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience in the authoritarian state.

“Forced organ harvesting has been committed for years throughout China on a significant scale,” the tribunal concluded in its final judgment Monday. The practice is “of unmatched wickedness — on a death for death basis — with the killings by mass crimes committed in the last century,” it added.

In 2014, state media reported that China would phase out the practice of taking organs from executed prisoners and said it would rely instead on a national organ donation system.

The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Tuesday was not immediately available to comment on the tribunal's findings.

In a statement released alongside the final judgment, the tribunal said many of those affected were practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual discipline that China banned in the 1990s and has called an “evil cult.” The tribunal added that it was possible that Uighur Muslims — an ethnic minority who are currently being detained in vast numbers in western China — were also being targeted.

The tribunal is chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice, who worked as a prosecutor at the international tribunal for crimes committed in the former Yugoslavia.

Related

NEWSChina wants to portray its vast Muslim detention camps as 'humane'

“Falun Gong practitioners have been one — and probably the main — source of organ supply,” the judgment read, while “the concerted persecution and medical testing of the Uyghurs is more recent,” using a different spelling of the minority group's name. It warned, however, that the scale of medical testing of the Uighur Muslims meant they could end up being used as an "organ bank."

The tribunal that delivered its judgment in London was initiated by the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China — a not-for-profit coalition including lawyers, academics, human rights advocates and medical professionals.

Allegations of forced organ harvesting first came to light in 2001, after a boom in transplant activity was registered in China, with wait times becoming unusually short, the statement said. Chinese websites advertised hearts, lungs and kidneys for sale and available to book in advance, suggesting that the victims were killed on demand, it added.

On Monday, the tribunal concluded that there was “numerical evidence” of the “impossibility of there being anything like sufficient ‘eligible donors’ under the recently formed PRC [People’s Republic of China] voluntary donor scheme for that number of transplant operations.”

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The tribunal added that witnesses, experts and investigators had told of how Falun Gong practitioners continued to be killed in order for their organs to be extracted. It added that forced organ harvesting was also being performed while victims are still alive, killing the person in the process.

The statement recalled how one witness, Dr. Enver Tohti, told of how as a surgeon in China he had been required to perform organ extractions. Referring to one instance in which he extracted an organ from a living patient, he said: “What I recall is with my scalpel, I tried to cut into his skin, there was blood to be seen. That indicates that the heart was still beating … At the same time, he was trying to resist my insertion, but he was too weak.”

Several survivors of prison camps told the tribunal of how they were subjected to physical examinations including blood tests, X-rays and ultrasounds, the statement said. “Experts report that the only reasonable explanation for these examinations was to ensure that victims’ organs were healthy and fit for transplantation,” it added. A healthy liver, for example, can reportedly be sold for some $160,000, according to the statement.

The tribunal concluded that it was "beyond reasonable doubt" that crimes against humanity had been committed against the Falun Gong and Uighur Muslims but that it could not prove that the killing of the Falun Gong amounted to genocide — because of the tribunal's inability to prove ‘intent’ to commit ‘genocide.’

In a statement accompanying the final judgment, the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China called on the international community to help bring an end to forced organ extraction.

“It is no longer a question of whether organ harvesting in China is happening, that dialogue is well and truly over. We need an urgent response to save these people’s lives,” Susie Hughes, executive director and co-founder of the coalition, said.

Saphora Smith reported from London. Dawn Liu and Ed Flanagan reported from Beijing. 

Saphora Smith

Saphora Smith is a London-based reporter for NBC News Digital. 

Dawn Liu and Ed Flanagan contributed.

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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Trick on Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:05 am

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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:21 am

Dude set on fire is fake news. 8-)
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Trick on Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:00 am

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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Trick on Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:03 am

grzegorz wrote: Unlike Trump's army these protesters aren't going anywhere.
as you could read in that article I posted, they are Trumps army, and so are you if you support them......imperialist 8-)
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:21 am

8-) All fake news.

And I will kick both your asses at foosball. :D

Besides Trump don't give 2 shits about China. He just blames the Chinese to get elected much like far right Europeans blame Jews.

Either way our opinions of HK won't add up a hill of beans.

Don't know what you guys are smoking in Sweden but it sounds to me that you need some Cali Bud.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby BruceP on Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:44 am

Trick wrote: as you could read in that article I posted, they are Trumps army, and so are you if you support them......imperialist 8-)


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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:45 am

::) Yeah because making a sign definitely means the CIA!
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:35 pm

I'm sure the US works to undermine China however it can, but how would that lead someone to conclude that there is no real grievance on the part of HKers? It's just a distraction. I know people from and in HK, and they are sad, but supportive of the movement and certainly not happy with the Mainland moving up the timeline.
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