Hong Kong Protests

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Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:24 am

I have a bad feeling that this isn't going to end well.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Peacedog on Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:58 am

You wouldn't be wrong.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:53 pm

It seems that they stopped the extradition law but now all sorts of other grievances are coming to the surface which considering the history of Hong Kong I am not surprised that they don't want to told how they will do things.

Yet I am concerned that Beijing will feel the need to exert its authority much as Putin is now by not allowing for free and fair elections.

Then again some things are worth dying for and I suppose the people of Hong Kong know that this could be their last stand before they become like any other mainland city.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Bao on Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:09 pm

...
Last edited by Bao on Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Fubo on Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:35 pm

That's a huge mistrpresentation of the protesters where the vast majority have been peaceful. The real "thugs" and "hooligans" were the triads who were supported by the government where they attack protesters coming home in Yuen Long. The police didn't show up for over 45 minutes despite people calling them. The 24-hour police station there was conveniently closed. The police didn't arrest anyone, claiming they didn't find weapons, despite the fact that they found the thugs with iron bars. The protests have gotten far more heated now because of the police brutality, the police colluding with the triads, and people's frustration with the realization that the government doesn't represent their best interests. The gravestone that was vandalized belonged to the mother of the pro-Beijing HK politician that was egging on and congratulating the triads and thugs that assaulted and brutally beat up regular people and protesters that were coming home in the train station.

Hong Kong's problem IS the mainland, specifically the extradition bill that Lam tried to push through. She was doing that in the best interest of the mainland government, which would allow the mainland to legally try people under their legal system. This goes against the 1 country 2 systems agreement that was supposed to be kept until HK fully goes back to China in 2037, but the mainland has been chipping away at Hong Kong's legal system subtly through HK's puppet government.

Also, this started in 2014 when the central government installed a 1000+ selection committee in Hong Kong, the vast majority being pro-Beijing, to select candidates for the election for the CE position in HK. Basically, anyone "elected" by the HK people would be a pawn of the mainland, with the illusion of a democratically elected CE.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:22 pm

Watch "When a Mob Attacked Protesters in Hong Kong, the Police Walked Away | Visual Investigations" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/fDtM3dEJdHo
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:30 pm

Like Moscow I am not surprised that people are angry at not having a representative government. It seems that Hong Kong basically has their candidates pre-approved by Beijing.

I don't see the point in blaming the oppressed for their oppression. I admit I am not fully aware of how things work in Hong Kong which is why I started the thread.

If the police turn their back on their own citizens being beat by gangsters how much respect do you think the police should get?

I would like to know more about these people's grievances and why they are willing to face voilence to make their point

Like Putin's blunder in invading Ukraine in his attempt to rebuild the Soviet Union if Beijing oversteps I think Taiwan will push for more independence.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Fubo on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:50 pm

The majority of protesters were none violent. The government has tried to characterize the protesters as violent to help their position and justify police brutality and take attention away from the hired thugs that attacked protesters.

there are direct ties between the mainland and the hired thugs. There are reports of a China lieason officer in connection to the hired triads, and the same thing happened during the 2014 protests. You also have a pro mainland politician encouraging these thugs to assault the regular citizens. They was an attempt to drum up anti protester support claiming that the thugs were regular “residents” tired of the disruption.

While it’s correct that Hong Kong people didn’t have the right to elect a governor under British rule, it’s not so simple to say that Hong Kong has never been more free than now. Both governments have installed puppets, however, the legal system in HK is a lot more humane than the one in the mainland, and this is a significant difference, cause if the extradition bill had passed it would have completely undermined HK rule of law. A simple example that scared HK residents was when the HK booksellers were kidnapped and illegally removed from HK to the mainland for distributing unflattering materials of the premier.

This doesn’t just boil down to problems with HK, because the CE in HK is not only sympathetic to the desires of the central government, but is consistently pressured by them to perform in their favor. As far as the housing issues in HK goes, it’s another complicated issue as the inflation that started in the late 90s and continued has as much to do with the government holding on to vast amounts of land that they won’t allow to be developed on, as is with many mainland government officials and businessmen taking their money out of the mainland and pouring it into real estate to keep their money safe. This all had a huge part in inflating the costs and creating an ever growing divide between the rich and poor. Go to Mong Kok and then the mid levels and you can see how vastly different people live, but at least they would have fair legal representation under the current system. The healthcare system, while not perfect, is among the best in the world. The government run hospitals have the best doctors impaired to the private ones, and while with any universal healthcare system there will be longer waits, the quality does not suffer.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Bao on Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:58 pm

there are direct ties between the mainland and the hired thugs.


The Mainland has no interest in creating problems for itself. What happens now is not good for their face or for the Western world’s relationship to China. Stability is a keyword and it’s an absurd conclusion that they should fight themselves.

And BTW, the new demonstrations in HK are anti-violence demonstrations towards the earlier protesters. HK people seems to be fed up with people creating problems for common citizens.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Fubo on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:07 pm

Bao wrote:
there are direct ties between the mainland and the hired thugs.


The Mainland has no interest in creating problems for itself. What happens now is not good for their face or for the Western world’s relationship to China. Stability is a keyword and it’s an absurd conclusion that they should fight themselves.

And BTW, the new demonstrations in HK are anti-violence demonstrations towards the earlier protesters. HK people seems to be fed up with people creating problems for common citizens.


Actually, the mainlands interest is making HK subservient to it’s rule. It wants the illusion of stability but not at the expense of the HK population getting their way. That’s why they do things through pressuring the CE, it allows a degree of deniability, but to say they’re not involved is absurd.

Most people in HK support the protesters and what they stand for... at least that’s the impression from inside HK, perhaps people get a different impression from outside.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:11 pm

Actually, the mainlands interest is making HK subservient to it’s rule


mmm, HK is on its own, not part of China?
ok


brings to lights some of whats going on in HK and China at large.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYB-TtLfulA
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Fubo on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:56 pm

windwalker wrote:
Actually, the mainlands interest is making HK subservient to it’s rule


mmm, HK is on its own, not part of China?
ok



I never said Hong Kong isn’t a part of China. Hong Kong is a special administrative region of China, and an agreement between China and the UK in after the handover in 1997 was that it would be run with the “1 country, 2 systems”, meaning it’s a part of China but Hong Kong gets to have the laws the UK put in place for 50 years, however those laws have been compromised from time to time which is against the “1 country, 2 systems” agreement.
Last edited by Fubo on Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby everything on Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:35 pm

Periscope usually has some interesting video

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1ynKORayMXZxR?q=hong+kong
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby grzegorz on Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:43 pm

I wish I had time to verify but what I heard on the radio is that the Chinese are blaming the US for these protests which is always a bad sign.

Thanks for your detailed post Fubo I remember the mainland going after those bookstore which surprised many since they had always said Hong Kong would live as one country but with two systems.

Seems that with President Xi declaring himself president for life I can't imagine people who have some freedom would be happy about that.

I also heard Beijing has indicated that it is ready to step in. I don't know if this is true but I am sure that one point they would so that the mainlanders don't get inspired to challenge Beijing.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong Protests

Postby Trick on Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:27 am

The HK police force where probably even more infested with Triads back in the days when the Queen ruled.
Mass protests in the streets of HK is very bad for the regular businesses , and doing business is the main game in HK.
And if the regular businesses are negatively affected then so are also the Triads businesses
Not only lesser tourists(mostly mainlanders) will find their way to HK to spend money, but also stricter border surveillance that make it impossible for the Triads to do their cross border businesses.....
It’s actually a smart(but very evil) plan the foreign powers has set in motion. but I doubt the mainland fall in the trap.
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