Trump has gone too far

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Trump has gone too far

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:13 pm

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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby edededed on Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:06 pm

I can jive with that. (Alcohol is not sacred.)
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Trick on Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:50 am

The word “alcohol” is said to come from the arabic term “Al-khul” which means “BODY-EATING SPIRIT” (also, is the origin of the term” ghoul”).
https://www.auricmedia.net/alcohol-said ... ng-spirit/
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:54 pm

edededed wrote:I can jive with that. (Alcohol is not sacred.)


???

I can't think of anything in Japan more sacred than alcohol. Its divine connections predate the first emperor in the oldest of writings.

If alcohol isn't sacred, then nothing is. ;D
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby edededed on Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:45 am

Probably silly ancient people assumed that the visions that they saw were from the gods (and not just delusions from extreme drunkenness).

Buddhism does have the 5 precepts (五戒) though, the fifth of which is to not drink alcohol. But of course nobody really follows this anymore in Japan (even the monks) - alcohol is quite persuasive after all.

At any rate, drunken men vomiting/peeing on train platforms, performing stupid stunts at drinking parties, sneaking touches and photos of cabaret girls... not sacred. At least they don't fight much here though.

More seriously - alcohol is one of the great pacifiers of the populace here that allows the government to do what it likes, like raise taxes (again). Whatever they do, they then use the media to point to food/alcohol, sports, etc. and it is all good!
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Steve James on Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:14 am

Well, it solves a problem I didn't know I had. Does this tariff apply to British products, or just EU alcohols. What about my Jameson?
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:29 am

edededed wrote:Probably silly ancient people assumed that the visions that they saw were from the gods (and not just delusions from extreme drunkenness).

Buddhism does have the 5 precepts (五戒) though, the fifth of which is to not drink alcohol. But of course nobody really follows this anymore in Japan (even the monks) - alcohol is quite persuasive after all.

At any rate, drunken men vomiting/peeing on train platforms, performing stupid stunts at drinking parties, sneaking touches and photos of cabaret girls... not sacred. At least they don't fight much here though.

More seriously - alcohol is one of the great pacifiers of the populace here that allows the government to do what it likes, like raise taxes (again). Whatever they do, they then use the media to point to food/alcohol, sports, etc. and it is all good!


Well, It's easy enough to call any religious people silly, if you want to take that approach. In fact, many religions probably did have their start from accidental or purposeful intoxication (ergot being an early accidental one).

Buddhism wasn't really a religion until it was cross-pollinated in India, China, SE Asia, and finally, Japan. As for drinking in Japanese Buddhism, it has its roots primarily in the anti-Buddhist movement known as Haibutsukishaku, in which a nationwide anti-Buddhist sentiment led people to force Buddhists to drink. An interesting phenomenon tied to the formation of the modern Japanese state. Of course, it might have happened anyway, with popular forms of Buddhism eschewing monastic practices during the birth of popular Buddhist movements in Medieval Japan (the patriarch of Ishiyama Honganji marrying his wife comes to mind).

As for drunken parties, lewd behavior, and even drunken disruptiveness: i would direct you to read either the Kojiki or Nihongi, both of which highlight all of these behaviors being carried out by the gods (Uke Mochi Omikami producing a feast for Amaterasu and others by vomiting/defecating on the table or the luring of Amaterasu from her cave by drinking sake and performing lewd and naked dancing).

In other words, I would be less quick to judge what is and is not sacred. Of course, sake is still used in all manner of religious ceremony as it is, indeed, sacred.
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:18 am

There's a difference, perhaps slight, between enjoying a glass of single malt scotch and pissing and vomiting all over the subway platform.
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:51 am

Abstaining from alcohol is for monks. :)
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:53 am

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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:57 am

Steve James wrote:Abstaining from alcohol is for monks. :)

https://lordsofthedrinks.com/2016/02/11 ... re-easter/
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:09 am

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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:28 am

Trick wrote:
Steve James wrote:Abstaining from alcohol is for monks. :)

https://lordsofthedrinks.com/2016/02/11 ... re-easter/


Yep, German monks started the German beer tradition. Rome allowed it because they thought the stuff was nasty; so they stuck with wine. ;)
But I was really referring to Buddhist monks :). The Christian rationale for drinking alcohol is great.
Last edited by Steve James on Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby Michael on Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:58 am

Trump is a teetotaler. He can not feel your pain.
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Re: Trump has gone too far

Postby edededed on Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:11 pm

Hi Ian,

Not meaning to judge others (if you enjoy your alcohol you are free to it), rather my intent was to present another side (that is not oft given, due to peoples' bias towards alcohol). The Kojiki and Nihongi stories I am familiar with, too - I guess that I was interested to see it might interest you to explore a side of Japan that did not favor drinking alcohol. (Anyway Japanese Buddhism is quite interesting for me.)

In modern times we have easy access to multiple religions/cultures so that we can compare ideas and values - e.g. alcohol is sacred in some, immoral in others. Ancient religions (also Greek, Norse, etc.) seem to often have stories about drunken gods reveling for some reason. In the end, we need to decide for ourselves what is personally sacred or not (whether based on tales from the Kojiki or Nihongi, knowledge of physiology, personal experience, etc.).
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