new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

[Steve James]

Sorry. I don't trust TC for information. It matters to me much more what FOX suggests people do now. I know what they said before. They pushed chloroquine as a secret remedy that was being kept from the people. And, the FOX docs all said we had nothing to worry about.

Travel bans didn't work. China closed down a region with millions of people. The West questioned whether it would even be possible because of the economic damage it would cause. We (many states) resisted locking down, calling it unnecessary. Now many states want to reopen -and condemn the people who didn't tell them to wear masks didn't protect, or that the virus could be spread by traveling.

Of course, if the country just opens back up, the loss of life will be blamed on those who allowed the virus to get everywhere. If we know what will surely stop the virus, we should do that. It's no different than if it were starting all over and we knew what we didn't know then.

Next year what happens? Same scenario, but new vírus. I don't want a FOX presenter to decide, not even Dr. Oz or Dr Dre.

[windwalker]

People have their own minds. There are many information sources to choose from.
The point of locking down or isolating people was to mitigate the spread allowing the medical systems to handle the rate

There are no developed vaccines for this virus, there are different therapies being looked at to treat the symptoms allowing the body to heal.

At some point most will become infected, either developing some immunity asymptomatic , or in other cases due to comorbidities belonging to a high risk groups, subject to the worst effects of the virus.

[Steve James]

You're repeating points made pages ago, several times. Anyway, anyone who trusted FOX news for information at the beginning of this "crisis" was wrong, some are dead wrong. If a new virus emerged today in China, would FOX recommend closing the borders, locking down the country, wearing masks, social distancing? Or, would it be, the economy is more important?

Otoh, FOX allegedly represents those who are "Pro life."

[roger hao]

I have been wanting to ask about this post -

It shows almost exactly 28 caskets which is the average amount that usually gets buried there.
New York fear mongering?

[Steve James]

Drones were not allowed. Fear mongering? You had to be here. If you were afraid, that's on you.

But, fwiw, people are buried on Hart's Island all the time. If you're in the morgue and no one claims your body, that'll be where you'll end up.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass- ... 19-deaths/

[Edit: People who die from the coronavirus who have relatives are taken to funeral homes, if there is space. For a time, their bodies were stored in freezer truck temporary morgues. If a body was not claimed, it might be sent to Hart's island or somewhere else temporarily until it might be claimed.]

[Steve James]

I don't know who this would scare, really. This is from a week ago. Go ahead, tell me not to believe my eyes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBEI2qzq1Is

[roger hao]

Fear can trigger an exosome to become active.

[Steve James]

Well, it turns out that lots of people who weren't afraid of covid-19 developed it. Some weren't afraid because they were washed in the blood; others thought it was too far away to fear; Yet, pastors and deniers and people in out of the way places have gotten the disease.

The issue is never fear; it's only how one responds to it. But, I have not been fearful of developing the disease or having a bad reaction. I mentioned a month ago that I thought I'd already had it (early in this thread). The only things that worried me was needing to go to the hospital --for any reason-- during the peak of the crisis, and passing the virus on to other people like an asshole. It has always been less fear than "Don't be a dickhead" who puts other lives at risk when he can see what's happening. I'm way more fearful of the dickheads because they're the ones who don't give a damn about me. Hmm, so maybe anger would come closer to the way I feel when I see the videos of morgues and burials.

[roger hao]

Geez Steve - really?

I said that fear can trigger it - I did not say that fear is the only trigger.
Toxins are the number one trigger.

[windwalker]

Coronavirus, revealed how it works: that's why hydroxychloroquine could work

https://www.iltempo.it/salute/2020/04/2 ... 2-1321227/

Antimicrobial Agents , the official body of the International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy. Of 211 people exposed to Covid positive 19 and undergoing hydroxychloroquine prophylaxis, none were infected.

Finally, further confirmation of this hypothesis is the data collected in the register of the SIR (Italian rheumatology society). To assess the possible correlations between chronic patients and Covid19, SIR interrogated 1,200 rheumatologists throughout Italy to collect statistics on infections. Out of an audience of 65,000 chronic patients (Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis), who systematically take Plaquenil / hydroxychloroquine, only 20 patients tested positive for the virus. Nobody died, nobody is in intensive care, according to the data collected so far.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI9DJACegSA

Susan banned this video from its original youtube page from local TV channel 23 ABC in Bakersfield, California because these doctors, who are treating covid patients, dared say something that may not be in perfect agreement with Teddy at WHO, who told us covid can not be transmitted person to person, masks don't help, and travel bans are wrong.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPrbGU0Wyh4

It was taken down because it was blatant misinformation meant to bring in more cash. These self-proclaimed partisans can't even do basic math and the most vociferous of the two, Daniel Erickson, is not even an MD.

ACEP-AAEM Joint Statement on Physician Misinformation

Joint Statement issued on April 27, 2020:

The American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine (AAEM) jointly and emphatically condemn the recent opinions released by Dr. Daniel Erickson and Dr. Artin Massihi. These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical societies and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19. As owners of local urgent care clinics, it appears these two individuals are releasing biased, non-peer reviewed data to advance their personal financial interests without regard for the public’s health.

COVID-19 misinformation is widespread and dangerous. Members of ACEP and AAEM are first-hand witnesses to the human toll that COVID-19 is taking on our communities. ACEP and AAEM strongly advise against using any statements of Drs. Erickson and Massihi as a basis for policy and decision making.



Additional Information

While ACEP believes strongly that practicing emergency physicians have valuable insight into the COVID-19 pandemic, specialists in Immunology, Infectious Disease, and Epidemiology, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, are the most qualified at interpreting this data and making representations.

The data cited by Drs. Erickson and Massihi is extrapolated from a small population to the state of California, resulting in misleading conclusions regarding the mortality of COVID-19. Their data is flawed and represents selection bias. In order for data to be extrapolated to a population, the investigator must assure that the populations are homogeneous, and in this case they are not.

For example, it is stated in the video that in one area of California, there is a 12 perent positive test rate. That is then erroneously used to conclude that there are almost 4.7 million cases in the entire state of California. But that framing only looks at the 12 percent of people who had access to a test. California is a large, diverse state, and it is unlikely that any one area will be representative of the state at large. As testing nationally is limited, there likely is a larger pool of people who have yet to receive a test but have a high probability of having the disease or who are asymptomatic and potentially contagious. What we do know is that the number of cases in most states is growing. The same extrapolation was used in his New York example, when again, the only people tested were those who were symptomatic. Because of the limited availability of testing and the as yet unknown sensitivity and specificity of the various tests, we cannot use this data to extrapolate to larger populations.

The speaker discusses the fatality rate in New York and states that there are 19,000 deaths out of 19 million people in New York, so New York has a fatality rate of 0.1 percent. However, he is concluding a fatality rate based on the total population—both symptomatic and healthy, which is a contradiction to how he calculated the fatality rate in California. Further there are a large number of patients who have yet to recover, and many of them whom remain on life support or are likely to die.

Another concerning misuse of data include comparisons to the flu despite different methodology for calculating deaths. Comparing flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are apples and oranges until the same methodology of calculating flu deaths is applied to COVID-19 deaths. Additionally, final flu data is calculated after the season is over. The physician in the video is comparing two months of COVID-19 data, which again at this point is incomplete. It is not scientifically valid to make a comparison to the completed six-month flu season.

There are other faulty data issues in their video, including basic scientific errors that call the conclusions into question (e.g., they call the flu and COVID-19 “DNA” viruses when COVID-19 and flu are both RNA viruses).

Most concerning for ACEP, they used their “emergency physician” titles to provide credence to their opinions. In any statement that proports to be based on science, data need to be carefully analyzed and the conclusions limited by the data source and integrity. By presenting themselves as authorities, and without fully disclosing their conflict of interest, they were misleading the public.

This is not to say that individuals should not have their own opinions, or that their opinions will turn out to be true. Emergency physicians should speak those opinions in controversies such as this. However, in doing so, we must be careful not to overstate our qualifications, particularly when we are in domains outside of medicine. As emergency physicians, we should be all too familiar with other specialties and providers who feel qualified to practice in our domain without our level of education. Opinions vary on one’s experience; emergency physicians in New York City are likely to feel differently.

ACEP feels strongly the traction and popularity of these dangerous conclusions had the potential to lead to bad policy decisions and public health outcomes.

https://www.acep.org/corona/COVID-19/co ... nformation

[Steve James]

Well, hopefully it'll work soon. We're up to 60K. I know, the higher the number gets, the more it's just a statistic. Even if it's wrong, it ain't over yet.

Now, if anti-malarial drugs are preventatives to infection, who should start taking it? Would you take it right now if you could? Sorry, me no. Maybe if I were sick. But, the study you cite showed that only 20 people who systematically took Plaquenil for their other condition (Lupus, etc) tested positive for the virus.

The only problem is that those patients need Plaquenil, and if they don't get it, not only do they suffer from their regular disease, they might even become more susceptible to covid. Anyway, since we can't get the drug to everyone to prevent infection, we're still left with the original issue of infection. I.e., what do we do right now?

Now, I do trust Fauci.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvBiU3rD6uc

[windwalker]

if that was directed towards me...

not a fan....of any vaccination to include flu shots.

As mentioned the team I was on back in the 70s administered the H1N1 vaccination developed
for the virus of that time....bad news for everyone....knocked out our battalion
over half had reactions from the vaccination itself later discontinued within the same yr
if memory serves me.

As what to do,,,depends

on how many people have caught this already
which many studies and some doctors are now starting understand
questioning previous assumptions.

lot of people including myself and some other family members
feel they may have had it already

remains to be seen how much more different this is then what some
consider to be the "normal" flu season as far as lethality


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7lRCjRTwcI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmLldKSzCvU

I agree with these doctors.....

[windwalker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-x934In-Ao

[Giles]

not a fan....of any vaccination to include flu shots.

As mentioned the team I was on back in the 70s administered the H1N1 vaccination developed
for the virus of that time....bad news for everyone....knocked out our battalion
over half had reactions from the vaccination itself later discontinued within the same yr
if memory serves me.

I don't call your account into doubt. However, that was one flu vaccination (hastily developed, if I understand you right) back in the 1970s.
Among other jobs I'm a 'Heilpraktiker' in Germany (but not one of the anti-science and/or anti-vaxxer ones...!) and I haven't heard of any such incidents or problems with flu vaccines here in recent times. Anecdotal, FYI: In 2015 I contracted 'real' influenza in the course of a bodyworking seminar and then spent more than 2 weeks out of action, feeling like sh** and unable to work, which as a freelancer involved a large loss of income. Every flu season since (apart from this year, when I forgot), I've had the current flu vaccination and it has never even slowed me down for a day. Never had flu since then, either, and colds have been fewer and less severe as well. ...or it might be down to my increasing Qi reserves as my training continues... ...or the mighty power of placebo, who knows...
This winter I did have a slightly more serious infection, for the first time, but whether that was a mild flu, a severe cold or even a mild Covid-19, only the gods can say.