new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Trick on Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:14 pm

Thanks for that explaination. Maybe this is th final elimination of the neadethals ?
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Peacedog on Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:48 am

Hard to say.

Only a few things have come up so far that seem to be "facts" regarding the disease.

1. Type A blood is much more likely to suffer a severe result. Type O blood is much less likely to have a severe presentation. Most people in SE Asia and sub-Saharan Africa, as an example, are type O blood types.

2. Vitamin D deficiency is a major risk factor. So, if you are dark skinned and live in a northern climate this is a big problem. Which explains why something like half of fatalities in the US involve black people despite being 12-13% of the population. It is unclear if taking a vitamin D supplement helps or not.

3. Obesity and old age are also major risk factors. Again it's why the disease largely affects old people. The disease has caused major problems in Latin America as those populations are frequently over-weight in urban areas and Latin populations are some of the longer lived general populations in the world. Also it could be why it does not appear to be such a big issue in sub-Saharan Africa, although this could be a reporting problem based off of weak governments. The populations are both hungry as well as much younger.

Outside of those items I'd be hard pressed to come up with definitive answers regarding the disease. It's just going to take more time to figure things out.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Steve James on Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:10 am

Well, in NYC, the majority of deaths have been people of Hispanic origin. In Brooklyn, Hasidic Jews were disproportionately affected. At that time, NYS made up the majority of nation's cases, and half the deaths. Right after the NY surge, outbreaks occurred in midwestern meat processing plants, whose employees were often immigrants. In all cases, infections were linked to communities, not races or ethnic groups. I.e., people who lived in nursing homes, prisons, tribal reservations and housing developments, or who attended large gatherings were the most at risk.

Someone who is obese, diabetic, with cardio-respiratory problems, and immunological issues will be at higher risk. If that person is elderly and immobile, the risk gets higher. There are people with those conditions of every "race." It might be true that access to hospital care is not universally available. But, I think it's a more useful way to identify at risk individuals who need to take special precautions.

Afa blood type, that could be used in addition to the presence of other conditions to suggest a more urgent treatment course. However, that would happen when the patient is already at the hospital, and can get tested for covid to begin with. I'm not sure that everyone knows their blood type, --but it'd be prudent to believe that one has the type that makes the disease more serious.

The vitamin D thing is interesting, but dark skinned people get more than enough of the vitamin when they're in the sun. So, it might more true to say that people who stay inside out of the sun are more susceptible. But, it was a relatively snowless winter here; people were out all the time. (Despite the dreaded lock down. I remember writing in this thread that I thought they were foolish. I ride by the same places now, and it's not the same. There are fewer groups and the groups are smaller).

Afa Africa, I think the number of deaths in W.Africa has just surpassed the ebola outbreak total, around 12K. Africa, however, is 3x the size of the US. There are cities as dense and modern as any in Europe and places that are uninhabited. South Africa is having a problem now. Anyway, there's plenty of sun there.

South America is also having a problem. Brazil has 2/3rd the US population, but 1/2 the number of deaths. The health system there is not set up to take care of the poor or the Indigenous people. So, the demographic breakdown might seem the same. Otoh, the fact of the Americas is that individuals from any population that has been here more than 150 years are genetically mixed, neither overly light nor dark, with dna fro many sources. It's almost impossible to find an African American descendant with no European ancestry. It is different on the African continent.

New Zealand has had almost no cases of covid. It has a diverse population. But, it has the advantage of being an island. We are not, and that's why behavior is most important right now. The surge in cases happening now is greater than it was in March. That's because the virus spread, not because of any prior disposition to infection or serious illness. The virus was on the west coast first.

Just wear a mask. The longer people allow the virus to spread, the longer we'll be in the crapper.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Peacedog on Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:55 am

Except that's the thing Steve. Dark skinned people living in north America or Europe are all Vitamin D deficient on some level.

The sun just isn't strong enough here for enough of the year in those populations to generate adequate endogenous Vitamin D. Something like 70% of of the University of Florida track team tested positive for low vitamin D levels a few years ago during one study. And those kids spend more time outside than just about anyone. The medical community's ridiculous infatuation with skin cancer, sunscreen and avoiding sun exposure hasn't helped either.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Steve James on Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:42 am

Well, Vitamin D supplementation has been implemented in milk products for years. For ex.,

To prevent vitamin D deficiency, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that infants and children receive at least 400 IU per day from diet and supplements. Evidence shows that vitamin D supplementation of at least 700 to 800 IU per day reduces fracture and fall rates in adults.


That is the general recommendation for the population, and it's based primarily on European subjects. So, granted, dark skinned people may need more supplementation. That is not to suggest that more supplementation will increase their resistance to or predict the effect of the virus on them. Otoh, checking for a vitamin d insufficiency might help, IF treatment improves with the administration of vitamin d to all patients with such a deficiency.

At base, this is a nutritional issue. Being light skinned does not ensure adequate Vitamin D. Also:

Large Doses Can be Harmful, Even Without Symptoms of Toxicity. ... High doses of vitamin D can cause hypercalcemia without toxicity symptoms, but can also cause toxicity symptoms without hypercalcemia ( 29 ). To be safe, you should not exceed the 4,000 IU (100 mcg) upper limit without consulting with a doctor or dietitian.


Hey, I take vitamin D supplement, and C, and zinc, fwiw.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby vadaga on Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:55 am

Here in Norway, there is a list of countries in the EU/EOS to which one can travel and return from without quarantine as of Wednesday https://www.fhi.no/en/op/novel-coronavirus-facts-advice/facts-and-general-advice/travel-advice-COVID19/ We were on work from home for a couple months there but it didn't have to be as bad as it has gotten in the USA.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Peacedog on Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:17 pm

Steve,

FYI that is an excellent point I was going to make as well.

It is unclear if taking additional Vitamin D helps regarding CV-19. Vitamin D isn't actually a vitamin. It is a hormone. And as such, it is unclear if Vitamin D insufficiency is the cause of the problem or merely a useful marker.

That said, if I were a betting man and I had low vitamin D levels....I'd go to the tanning salon twice a week. Find a UVB only machine and use for 5 minutes on the minimum setting twice a week. Follow up with bloodwork and titrate up the exposure as needed. It wouldn't cost much and the UVB radiation supposedly destroys the virus anyway. I think a low setting twice a week would probably be safe over the mid-term until a vaccine is available.

I've had people with a variety of skin and metabolic disorders do this and the improvements on their laboratory results has been remarkable. A couple of them even lost weight.

My personal suspicion is that the medical hysteria over skin cancer and sun exposure has created a generation of metabolically damaged people. The poison is in the dose when it comes to most forms of medicine and that is certainly true with sun exposure. For the record, I've never met a sun deprived person who was really healthy in the first place.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby vadaga on Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:51 am

Peacedog wrote:That said, if I were a betting man and I had low vitamin D levels....I'd go to the tanning salon twice a week.


What are your thoughts on tanning salon vs. supplements- I drink cod liver oil all winter but I wonder if it's just a placebo
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:45 am

Cod liver oil used to be recommended to let the kids take a table spoon a day, it did not taste well but worked. If there were only a placebo effect to it it probably would have had an opposite effect since the taste was bad
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:50 am

Yeah, the reasons for vitamin D insufficiency and the threats of uv exposure can be complicated because they will vary among individuals, and will differ depending on the environment. I do think it would be interesting to look at the issue from the perspective of skin coloring or melanin distribution. It seems logical that humans who inhabit areas with different levels of sunlight will adapt over generations to those conditions. So, a very pale person probably shouldn't stay in full sun; it's at least unnecessary, and at worst could be damaging. Otoh, a darker skinned person probably can withstand sun exposure longer, and might suffer more from lack of exposure.

But, tanning salons show that changes in skin color can occur in a season. Imho, the ideal human color (i.e., the most adaptable) is "tan" or camel or whatever color is right in the middle of the extremes (which are very rare). So, if I were very light, I'd be more wary of tanning salons than if I were olive skinned.

Anyway, afa vitamin d, the question is really how to know when one has enough. I take a supplement, but I also make sure to get some sun shine every day :).
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby everything on Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:32 am

on the cod liver oil tangent, fish oil and krill oil (omega 3 fats) have a lot of studies showing they have good benefits. not sure it relates to the vitamin d part.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:48 am

Here are 7 healthy foods that are high in vitamin D.

Salmon. Salmon is a popular fatty fish and great source of vitamin D. ...
Herring and sardines.
Cod liver oil. ...
Canned tuna. ...
Egg yolks. ...
Mushrooms. ...
Fortified foods.

From the internet :) I would guess that krill oil would be good too. I'd also imagine that fresh tuna would have just as much vitamin d as canned. But, sushi or salad is fine either way for me.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:14 pm

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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:15 pm

Vadaga,

I think the issue of UV exposure and vitamin D supplementation is actually 3 different things.

1. You've got the Vitamin D deficiency. It is unclear if this results in susceptibility itself or if it is simply a good marker indicating risk. The problem is Vitamin D is a hormone. And in many cases taking exogenous hormones results in some really weird feedback loops activating in the body that make production of other hormones stop. What is the right answer here? Who knows. I suspect some supplementation is smart over the short term.

2. Since Vitamin D it is naturally occurring in fatty fish, I am a real fan of fish oil. And while anecdotal, I've met many people who reported significant improvements in cognitive functioning after taking fish oil as a supplement over a long period of time. It is unclear if vitamin D supplementation does much in the way of health improvement. The studies are all over the place with one notable exception. If administered in childhood, it works very well as a prophylaxis for schizophrenia in high risk children. 3-6 grams a day appears to be the sweet spot. And that is only 30-60 additional calories daily. Well worth doing for any number of issues. And I noticed a significant improvement in test results in medical school once I started taking this. And I didn't attend school until my mid-40s.

3. Sun exposure writ large has been documented to double testosterone in young men when the entire upper body was exposed for an hour a day around the middle of the day. Which is exactly when most MDs will tell you to avoid it. The rash of low testosterone seen in young men appears to me to be a direct result of being told to avoid sun exposure. Low testosterone increases inflammation in the body, decreases immune system performance, results in sterility/obesity and makes it much more likely to have a severe reaction to CV-19. Not to mention that everything except zinc based sunblock has many chemicals in it that are definitely bad for you. You don't just get Vitamin D and testosterone production from sun exposure either. If you look at meditative and yogic practices sun exposure is credited with solving many health related problems historically.

AFA sun tanning beds are considered, I'd say the real issue is the dose. The people getting skin cancer from them run them on high settings over long periods of time. Don't do this. Poison is in the dose. Use the minimum setting required to get your Vitamin D levels right.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Peacedog on Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:46 am

More evidence indicating hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment for CV-19.

I now suspect this, as it is frequently used in SE and sub-Saharan Africa, combined with adequate Vitamin D levels, lack of obesity, and greater incidence of type O blood in the general population probably explains the lower than expected CV-19 death rates in those regions.

Obviously we'll see over the next couple of years.

In the meantime, make sure you get plenty of sun exposure and lose weight if you are obese.

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating- ... on-1519535
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