Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby roger hao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:04 pm

Dr Fauci -

Was not allowed to fund the Coronavirus creation through NIH
so he did it through a shell company. You talking about that Dr Fauci?
The one that couldn't give any number for when the virus is a a level
to be tolerated? Personification of covidiot.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:11 pm

I wasn't invalidating your post. I specifically said I had no idea what you were taking. In my post --to which I think you replied-- I said that people have touted hydroxychloroquine, oleandrin, and now ivectrin as "cures." I have no argument with anyone who takes them. I wouldn't.

And, it doesn't invalidate anything you wrote if I point out that there are people who've done absolutely nothing and are fine. The point is that it's all anecdotal. It's worked for you, but that doesn't prove it works.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby roger hao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:59 pm

OK -
Except I told you exactly what I was taking so it seems there was another
intent. My original point - that thousands are getting a result from ivermectin.
Isn't that how trials work? It isn't just me.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby roger hao on Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:01 pm

I am taking ivermectin
I don't know what you are taking
I am taking ivermectin
I don't know what you are taking

Are you suffering from sensory deprivation?
roger hao

 

Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:35 am

Last edited by Steve James on Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Giles on Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:41 am

roger hao wrote: My original point - that thousands are getting a result from ivermectin.
Isn't that how trials work? It isn't just me.


I'm not a scientist so I might get some things wrong below, but...
Put in the simplest terms, a medical trial works by having a group of people take some kind of substance, or carry out some kind of activity, etc. and seeing what effect this substance/activity = 'thing' has on the people in the study. What's important is that you also have a control group, meaning a comparable group of people with a similar (potential) problem who don't take the substance/carry out the activity. So that you know any significant outcome is more likely due to the 'thing' you're focusing on and not because the Christmas vacation just came round or because everybody the city has started drinking lots of bubble tea. If it's a substance and not an activity, then if possible you give the control group the same pill, or whatever, but it's a dummy: looks the same but has no drug in it. So the trial participants don't know whether they've taken the 'thing' or not. This is known as a 'blind'. Ideally, the people administering the pill also don't know whether the 'thing' is inside or not: 'double blind'. (Although for some substances and most activities it's hard or impossible to include the 'blind' aspect).
You also need enough people to allow more general conclusions to be drawn from the results. The bigger the group(s) involved, the better.
Then when you have your results from the trial - did the 'thing' help significantly or not? - a bunch of other people will take a look at your procedures, results and possible claims. These people should be pretty much experts in the same field, or at least able to see whether you applied the basic procedures properly. Sometimes circumstances may make it impossible to work with a proper control group as well. This can still provide some initial indications about the 'thing' but it automatically means the results are less solid. Any encouraging results should be backed up with trials that in include control groups as soon as possible.
The experts checking your study/trial should still be able to get a good idea of whether, or to what exent, they think the trial you conducted can be called sound in scientific terms. Or whether it's a little incomplete, or dubious, or totally worthless in this respect.
This is 'peer review'.

Anecdotal reports of people getting results with a 'thing' can certainly prompt further investigation through actual medical trials. But the anecdotal reports, or claims, don't constitute a 'trial' in themselves. As everyone will realize, there's a huge number of factors - coincidental, emotional, political etc. - that can influence these reports or claims and which have nothing to do with whether the actual 'thing' is effective or not.

Roger, can you point to any actual peer-reviewed medical trials that indicate Ivermectin is significantly effective against Covid-19? Because at the moment there seem to be several such trials that indicate it isn't. But hey, if it is credibly shown to be effective, then that would be a good thing.

Although even then, it seems extremely unlikely that this would obiviate the need for vaccines. Old medical adage, you know: "prevention is better than cure."

Stay healthy!
Last edited by Giles on Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:03 am

. ICON Clinical Study Results


The ICON study, which was a multihospital retrospective cohort study, involved 280 patients, 173 patients were treated with at least one oral dose of 200 μg/kg ivermectin and 107 patients had no ivermectin treatment. Patients could also be treated with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both.


The results from this study showed that:

Overall mortality was significantly lower for the ivermectin group (15%) compared to the usual treatment group (25.2%) using figures from the unmatched cohort.
Mortality for the subgroup of patients who had severe pulmonary involvement was lower in the ivermectin treatment group (38.8%) compared to the usual treatment group (80.7%) from the unmatched cohort.
There was no significant difference between the two treatment groups regarding successful extubation rates of mechanically ventilated patients. Successful extubation is when the patient has had the breathing tube that has been used for mechanical ventilation removed and they can successfully breath on their own.
Length of hospital stay was not significantly different between the ivermectin treatment group and the regular treatment group.




Bottom line

Clinical trials in the laboratory (in vitro) on ivermectin show that ivermectin reduces the number of cell-associated viral RNA by 99.8 % in 24 hours, for the SARS-CoV-2 which is the virus that causes COVID-19.
More studies are needed to see if these positive results will be the same in human testing (in vivo) and whether ivermectin will decrease the symptoms, time for recovery and death rate from COVID-19.
Ivermectin is already a FDA approved medicine for some types of intestinal worms
It is known that ivermectin has a good safety profile at standard dosing levels.



https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/i ... s-3535912/
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:19 am

From the link.

Official Answer
by Drugs.com

Ivermectin has been trialled in treating the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus that causes COVID-19.

An in vitro trial has shown ivermectin reduces the number of cell-associated viral RNA by 99.8 % in 24 hours. An in vitro study is when they study cells in a laboratory and not in a living organism.

More studies are now needed to be done using ivermectin on people or animals to see how well ivermectin works against COVID-19. This is in vivo testing.

Ivermectin is currently a FDA approved medicine for treatment of intestinal worms, Strongyloides stercoralis and Onchocerca volvulus. It has been established as safe for human use.


The good thing is that the drug is safe, whether effective or not.

The above multihospital study involved patients: i.e., people who had the disease, and who may also be treated with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both. It would be great if it works for patients. [Edit] But, I don't want to be a patient or hospitalized to find out. If I were intubated, I'd want them to try every thing. Just sayin'. To me, the point has always been how to stay out of the hospital.

Anyway, my anecdote is that I received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine a month and a half ago. I'm still fine. Almost 8 million other people have received the same vaccine, and --as expected-- some have died (4) another 4 are in the ICU and 2 were released from the hospital. That's an enormous trial, so I like my odds.
Last edited by Steve James on Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Quigga on Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:46 pm

And suddenly, the inevitability of death is in people's minds and hearts worldwide through media, both electrical and biological. Isn't it wonderful?

People dying all around the globe since forever - in modern times from very avoidable causes - now the public's hypocrisy is unveiled - only feeling something when they themselves are touched
Last edited by Quigga on Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:26 am

Indian hospitals: “We are getting out of oxygen”
India reaches our to the USA.
China: “We can help you with oxygen and deliver as soon as you want”
India: “We don’t want oxygen from you, we’ll wait for the USA to help us.
USA: “We will try investigate if we can help India further to fight Covid.”

One week later, hundreds of people have already died because of the lack of oxygen:

China: “We are still next door. Just say if you want oxygen, we’ll help you right away.”
India: ”No thanks, we’ll Just wait for the USA.”
USA: ”We will try to investigate if we can help India further to fight Covid.”

::)

I don’t believe that the families to the people who die because of lack of oxygen would really care from what country the oxygen had been delivered... :-\

Edit: just saw that Saudi Arabia will help out and ship 80 metric tonnes of oxygen.
Last edited by Bao on Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:50 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hvXeX7ZZ3I

"It only affects the elderly." So you say.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Giles on Sat May 01, 2021 3:17 am

What goes around, comes around...

"Kenyan anti-vaccine doctor dies from Covid-19" ... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56922517
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Sat May 01, 2021 4:42 am

Giles wrote:What goes around, comes around...

"Kenyan anti-vaccine doctor dies from Covid-19" ... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56922517


At least he died for what he believed in.

... ? ... :P
Last edited by Bao on Sat May 01, 2021 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Quigga on Sat May 01, 2021 10:54 am

Giles, IMO there are enough examples of this kind of 'justice' people like to witness. Some are more news-worthy than others in the face of inquiring journalists who may or may not consciously push their agenda and worldview on others. I'm sure there are enough coincidences like these to support any position - some are more popular than others nowadays.

Those stories are used to fearmonger. I wouldn't base my sense of personal security upon them.

If I catch Covid and it doesn't look good, I'll report back :D
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Giles on Sun May 02, 2021 2:55 am

I don't base any of my health-related decisions or opinions on information like this. For that, I refer to broad scientific/medical consensus. Because this, although not representing any final, immutable truth, is in this area a damn sight more reliable - until proven otherwise - than many people's 'gut feeling'. Including my own.
I think the accusation of fearmongering here is beside the point. I don't see any significant skewing of facts or denigrating of this person. It happened. Certainly I feel it illustrates in a very ironic way the fallaciousness of statements and arguments made by hard-core anti-vaxx influencers. Personally, I view his previous opposition to, and probable inhibition of, vaccination campaigns aimed at women and girls as (even) more reprehensible than his Covid-19 statements. And now his opinions came back to bite him. So it goes.

Stay healthy. I'll do my best, too. Our differences in age and family status may influence our respective strategies.
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