Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby BruceP on Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:42 pm

LaoDan wrote:I am not a specialist in human psychology, but much of the Dunning-Kruger effect can be used to explain many behaviors that I see.

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Individuals on the lower end of the intelligence or experience or wisdom axis, i.e., “the peak of ‘Mt. Stupid’,” tend to act in predictable ways (some refer to as signs of stupidity/low intelligence).

https://www.psychmechanics.com/signs-of-low-intelligence/

We can look at Trump to see many of these characteristics, for example, the insistence that they are the smartest and only they can fix things; the vicious attacks (including verbal, but for many also including physical) on opponents; the evasiveness (not meaning things the way they are taken, just joking, being misunderstood…); insisting that they are never wrong, and “doubling down” whenever they are questioned; lack of empathy, and difficulty of reflection on things, and lack of open-mindedness; black and white thinking; bullying; etc.


oof!

Apropos that you'd post that chart and follow it with a link to dude's "16 signs..." While grinding blade today, I was actually cudding on the ideas of confidence and skill and the undertaking of a new/novel project with no prior experience or method by which the project could be commenced, and how, in my personal experience, it's actually an act of faith in oneself more than it is an abundance of confidence.


One of my nephews brought me a Canary wood board about 20 years ago and asked me to make him a fighting staff. While shaping the staff, I was amazed at how tough and dense canary wood is while exhibiting some pretty decent flexibility and harmonics/resonance. The leftover strips stood in a corner for several years before I got the notion to try making a bow with some of it. I'd built well over 100 bows before that, and have since made more than a dozen bows with canary in a few different configurations (laminated R/D. self, and laminated D-section longbows). I was unable to find any examples of canary ever being used as a bow wood before I started building with it, so I was flying blind in terms of design, draw-length, draw-weight, sectional dimensions, etc. Being that it takes me about fifty hours to make a bow, it really sucks and is heartbreaking when one fails, so there's lots of adrenaline, trepidation and belief in the unbelievable throughout the entire process. I experienced the same state while making my first bow out of padauk wood since I could find no examples of that wood being used for bows either.

Anyway, I don't know if you realize it or not, but any one fully in agreement with Parvez's list is planting their own flag of ignorance alongside his on the summit of Mt. Stupid. His particular use of stereotypes, absolutes and generalizations are the legs upon which snobs climb to the ivory heights of deluded exceptionalism.

And your commentary on trump says more about your own ethical consistency than it does his. Even though he wishes death on the hesitant, you could take a lesson from Dmitri.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby GrahamB on Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:34 am

Long rambling post + misdirection. Very good 8-)
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby vadaga on Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:48 am

Last edited by vadaga on Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby LaoDan on Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:52 am

BruceP wrote:And your commentary on trump says more about your own ethical consistency than it does his.

Republicans tended to lose my confidence in them when my state’s legislators passed a law requiring only “historical data” be used in planning/reviewing/regulating construction projects, negating any considerations of climate change. In my opinion they essentially legislated that our government could NOT rely on the latest scientific information and modeling, and HAD to rely only on outdated information! Talk about pandering to ignorance! They went on about “proof” and “opinion” and “elitism” and “brainwashing” and “censorship” and “authoritarianism” and “socialism” and “lack of freedom” etc. in many topics, including the climate “debate,” while ignoring the preponderance of evidence shown by critical scientific inquiry. I only have seen this trend continue, and become even more extreme over the years, and be applied to more and more subjects, and be amplified by social media... I do not think that it is a good trend for our country. But you apparently see things differently?
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:28 pm



“They act like these shots are completely safe and tested, but I guarantee that future historians are going to look back on this time period centuries from now and discover that everyone who took the Covid vaccine is dead, too.”


I'm sure this makes perfect sense. But, it's great example how, even if true, doesn't support an argument. I can guarantee that historians in future centuries will look back and find that everyone who took aspirin died.

Ah, the one thing about death is that it's a shared reality. I think people should be thinking about how many lives they could save or help live by doing something.

I don't know about Dunning Kruger, but I think it's true that there are people who know they don't know and people who think they know as much as anyone else. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but everyone has a right to say that opinion is shit. Saying the person is shit for having the opinion is different. Afa the quote up there, for ex., if I said that the guy who said it was stupid, it'd be rude, but irrelevant to the argument. Otoh, if someone tried to explain to him why his argument was wrong, and he didn't understand, then either he's being dishonest or he really isn't that smart.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Giles on Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:45 am

Steve: The stuff Vadaga posted is satire... 8-)

The Onion item had me in stitches!
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:05 am

Giles wrote:Steve: The stuff Vadaga posted is satire... 8-)

The Onion item had me in stitches!


Whew. My faith in humanity has been restored. :) It's just that after hearing irrational and illogical statements, it's hard not to take them seriously. But, my bad.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby LaoDan on Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:12 am

BruceP wrote:And your commentary on trump says more about your own ethical consistency than it does his.

I presented a concept from psychology that shows how someone of low ability can have an inflated confidence in themselves, and I presented information on behaviors of people with low intelligence, and I followed that up with a real world example of a public figure, who is known to most readers, who appears to behave precisely these mannerisms. I do not understand where “ethics” comes into this. You may have to explain it to me because I may be too stupid to understand your point.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby LaoDan on Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:58 am

Steve James wrote:I don't know about Dunning Kruger, but I think it's true that there are people who know they don't know and people who think they know as much as anyone else. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but everyone has a right to say that opinion is shit.

There is a potential problem with this (everyone being entitled to their own opinion), although in general I would agree with it. When opinions lead to actions that potentially threaten others, then as a society we typically try to modify behaviors (typically through societal laws, but sometimes through other means like peer pressure, etc.). We have “rules of the road” to counteract the finding that “around 88% of American drivers consider themselves to be above average at driving, according to Psychological scientists at New York University” and to protect other people. We have health rules for workplace safety in order to reduce unsafe working environments, and product safety regulations to reduce injuries from products that we use.

When people use tactics to dismiss knowledge by requiring “proof” before they change their behaviors, or considering scientific studies to be mere “opinions” etc., then society allows negligent people to cause harm to others. I do not see this as being right. With something like climate change, most living things on the entire planet can be negatively affected. With a viral pandemic, numerous people around the world can be harmed. While it is true that not everyone can be protected, and we typically assume some “acceptable” level of risk, merely dismissing reality because one does not want to change one’s behaviors, seems to me to be excessively irresponsible. I would be more accommodating of discussions as to what we should set as an acceptable level of risk, and the regulations needed to meet those expectations, than I am to arguments that seem designed to escape responsibilities and allow people to do whatever they want.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:55 am

My point was that everyone literally has the right to have an opinion on anything. But that means Everyone has the right to have an opinion about someone else's opinion. Yes, opinions are acts, and they can be responded to with action. I think you're really talking about the limits of tolerance.

Afa tolerating illogical arguments, that's just the way it is. It's rhetoric, not logic; so, it can be frustrating. Imagine how women must feel watching men argue about them.

There is no way to stop it because there is no agreement on logic, or "facts," or "truth." But, on the internet, there is access to contrary opinions on any issue. The idea of "thinking for oneself" has become synonymous with "internet fu." So, if there are 95 experts with one opinion, the other 5 will be used to show that the issue isn't settled. Imo, the difference is why they chose to agree with the five. Sometimes, it's just to be contrary. It's like trying to find a YouTube video with no dislikes. (I just YouTubed "puppies playing," and there were 387K likes and 37K dislikes. Now, why would anyone bother to dislike a video of puppies playing?) It is what it is.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby LaoDan on Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:53 am

OK, that I agree with.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:52 am

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:14 am

Right-wing activist Laura Loomer confirmed this week she has COVID-19 and the symptoms have been “brutal.” In the past, she expressed an interest in contracting the virus so she could prove it’s no worse than food poisoning.

“Just pray for me please,” she wrote on Gettr, a social media platform launched by Jason Miller, a former spokesperson for Donald Trump. “Can’t even begin to explain how brutal the body aches and nausea that come with covid are. I am in so much pain. This is honestly the worst part about it.”

Last year, Loomer said she wanted to “get COVID” just to prove she’d had “bouts of food poisoning that are more serious and life threatening than a hyped up virus.”

“Have you ever eaten bad fajitas? That will kill you faster than COVID,” she wrote on Parler, another social media app favored by conservatives. Loomer, known for her anti-Muslim views and a failed Congressional run in Florida, has been banned from Twitter for three years.

Though she’s not on the popular microblogging platform herself, Twitter users shared screenshots of her past Gettr posts about the pandemic and COVID-19 vaccines.

“I believe when a few years pass, we will see that the vaccines will have killed more people than COVID,” said one of Loomer’s old posts. “How is a vaccine ‘saving lives’ for a virus with a 99.7% recovery rate? A bad case of food poisoning is literally more lethal than COVID.”

Another post said, “People get COVID and don’t even know they have COVID. I know people who have cancer and are on chemo who got COVID and nothing happened to them.”

She called the virus “the biggest hoax” since the 2020 election.
...
Loomer told her Gettr subscribers she received a Regeneron treatment, but is in a lot of pain and “will be sleeping” for the time being. She said she still does not plan on getting the vaccine.


Fair enough, but if we pray for you, will you pray for the people who do get the vaccine? Maybe ore importantly, will she admit that covid isn't a hoax? That it's worse than the flu.

Anyway, if like so many promoters of the hoax theory, she ultimately advocates for people to get vaccinated, her believers won't believe her. Consequently, they still might not get vaccinated --for a very logical reason. Yet, if vaccination helps, they're not going to get it. (Yep, "if" it's no worse that food poisoning or the flu, why get the vaccine? Why do anything?)
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:10 pm

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Some people don't have to get the vaccine, and can not be forced to get it.
Should people be concerned ?
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:49 pm

Well if they want to work for a federal contractor they'll have to get it.
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