Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

[Franklin]

No invasion gonna happen, and I see that inTaiwan as in all the other provinces too we are joining in in the Chinese New Year festivities..even Chinatowns around the globe are celebrating ...A happy and prosperous year for all

its really hard to walk back war mongering
good luck with that...




i am sure no one in the rest of the world is celebrating like China

Chinese State TV’s Lunar New Year Program Features Blackface

Beijing (AP) -- Chinese state TV included dancers in blackface portraying Africans in a holiday gala for the second time in three years, prompting criticism online, as Asia welcomed the Year of the Ox with muted festivities amid travel curbs to contain renewed coronavirus outbreaks.

The “African Song and Dance” performance Thursday came at start of the Spring Festival Gala, one of the world’s most-watched TV programs. It included Chinese dancers in African-style costumes and dark face makeup beating drums.

The five-hour annual program, which state TV has said in the past is seen by as many as 800 million viewers, also included tributes to nurses, doctors and others who fought the coronavirus pandemic that began in central China in late 2019.

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China's ruling Communist Party tries to promote an image of unity with African nations as fellow developing economies. But China Central Television has faced criticism over using blackface to depict African people in past New Year broadcasts.

On Twitter, Black Livity China, a group for people of African descent who work in or with China, called the broadcast “extremely disappointing.” It noted CCTV’s 2018 Spring Festival Gala featured performers in blackface with a monkey.

“We cannot stress enough the impact scenes such as these have on African and Afro-diasporic communities living in China,” the group said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ear-s-gala



I will hold my breath as I wait for the outrage from Main Stream Media - and Woke culture around the world -- to manifest itself...

[Steve James]

Yeah, we love those caricatures of Fu Manchu, Dragon Ladies, Charlie Chan, and the buck-toothed Japanese.

Anyway, I disagree completely with any outrage. Ridicule is more appropriate. I lmao when I see people trying to pretend they're other people, and not think it's funny. Otoh, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I don't think the Chinese were deliberately trying to make fun of anyone.

[Franklin]

Yeah, we love those caricatures of Fu Manchu, Dragon Ladies, Charlie Chan, and the buck-toothed Japanese.

Anyway, I disagree completely with any outrage. Ridicule is more appropriate. I lmao when I see people trying to pretend they're other people, and not think it's funny. Otoh, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I don't think the Chinese were deliberately trying to make fun of anyone.

lol...
you dated yourself a bit with:

Yeah, we love those caricatures

are those tropes really that popular in modern times
(i really have no idea)


and I agree
there is no need for outrage
the Chinese government has stated that racism doesn't exist in China

its interesting that the West seems to agree
(even though there is plenty of evidence and experiences that speak for themselves)


just pointing out how --
its interesting that there is a different set of rules for china in all things...



Franklin

[Steve James]

are those tropes really that popular in modern times
(i really have no idea)

Those particular caricatures, nope. They were replaced by the "kung fu" guy trope. Bruce Lee was woke for his time. Yep, it dates me. And, that's why I have to laugh at people who still do a blackface gag (that goes back to the 19th century).

However, like I said, I don't think the Chinese were doing it to ridicule Africans. I also think it'd be ok for Chinese people to wear African dress, the same way westerners wear Chinese dress. That's why I don't think there was any bad intentions, but could have been handled differently.

Afa complaints about Chinese racism, I only speak for myself and assume nothing. There are racists everywhere, and all I do is try not be one. I also won't use anyone else's racism to excuse my own. Ya know, in 55 years, I can't say I've ever met a racist Chinese or Japanese ma teacher. Though, in NYC in the 60s, there may have been teachers who only taught Chinese.

I just recalled that as a kid in the 50s, my Chinese friends (whose family owned the stereotypical laundry) used to call me "hot cooey." Then again, they had to put up with the Charlie Chans, Hey Boys, Hop Sings, and so on which were the only images of Chinese on tv until the mid-60s.

I agree with you that it is easy to blame the Chinese, and the virus is an example. No one knows yet where exactly it originated. It could easily have been from someone bringing an infected animal to China. I'm not going to know; so, I'm not going to assign blame. How the virus is handled wherever we are will make the difference.

[Franklin]

are those tropes really that popular in modern times
(i really have no idea)

Those particular caricatures, nope. They were replaced by the "kung fu" guy trope. Bruce Lee was woke for his time. Yep, it dates me. And, that's why I have to laugh at people who still do a blackface gag (that goes back to the 19th century).

However, like I said, I don't think the Chinese were doing it to ridicule Africans. I also think it'd be ok for Chinese people to wear African dress, the same way westerners wear Chinese dress. That's why I don't think there was any bad intentions, but could have been handled differently.

Afa complaints about Chinese racism, I only speak for myself and assume nothing. There are racists everywhere, and all I do is try not be one. I also won't use anyone else's racism to excuse my own. Ya know, in 55 years, I can't say I've ever met a racist Chinese or Japanese ma teacher. Though, in NYC in the 60s, there may have been teachers who only taught Chinese.

I just recalled that as a kid in the 50s, my Chinese friends (whose family owned the stereotypical laundry) used to call me "hot cooey." Then again, they had to put up with the Charlie Chans, Hey Boys, Hop Sings, and so on which were the only images of Chinese on tv until the mid-60s.

I agree with you that it is easy to blame the Chinese, and the virus is an example. No one knows yet where exactly it originated. It could easily have been from someone bringing an infected animal to China. I'm not going to know; so, I'm not going to assign blame. How the virus is handled wherever we are will make the difference.

i would argue that a possible reason the chinese (government) keeps doing the blackface stuff
after having for years now been told by the west that that is some racist stuff.. and they should not be doing it...
is because...
they can't admit they were wrong..
if they change what they have been doing - they admit to being wrong
and the west told them what to do.. and not only are they the lower one in that relationship
they loose face...
instead they have declared that racism does not exist in china
and continue to do the blackface stuff -- (cause you know, they said their is nothing wrong with what they are doing)
(i think over time it will probably be done less and less by them -- or just completely accepted by the west..)


I don't think we will ever have a answer to where the virus actually came form
yes there will be an official story..
but
if there was an investigation in a timely manor
or actual true cooperation and openness
maybe it would be a different story...
(and that's not even getting into any of the other murkiness of the whole situation


as to racism in china
i won't comment directly..
anyone interested can do their own research...
but i think even mark salzman had an anecdote in his book iron and silk - about the lamentations of an african medical student in china from the early 80's
is it just the culture, or more... and how much of that culture is OK?
(growing up i had some trini friends (from trinidad) -- their parents also had some of these "cultural" issues that came out from time to time -- not overt stuff mind you)



Franklin

[Steve James]

Well, yeah, the PRC are never going to change because of pressure from the west. And, they may never be willing to admit that racism exists in China or that the blackface stuff was racist. Ok, let's just say that there's definitely colorism in many Asian cultures, and in many places all over the world. I don't think there are enough Black people in China to accuse the government of racism. Otoh, I know that the image of the Black person there comes from images created in the US.

Anyway, I don't think racism is an accurate description. It's just easy in the US to divide things (including social, educational, and political issues) into black and white because it's been so for centuries --based on economics. There's plenty of prejudice based on movies, etc., and then there's the fact of competition. Whenever any foreigner gets established, there can be a lot of envy. But, are Chinese men racist because they complain about their women going out with Europeans? Or, are they racist against Japanese?

And, just as here, there's the known v unknown phenomenon. I.e., Michael Jordan goes to China and fills stadium, etc. I hear Stephon Marbury is a superstar.

[Franklin]

Well, yeah, the PRC are never going to change because of pressure from the west.

and yet - what is the strategy of the west for interacting with them...

seem like one of those things doomed to fail before it even begins...

[Steve James]

Can't speak for the west. I just do taiji.

China's economy will inevitably become larger than the US. The relations between China and the nations in the region will have more of an effect on me. Americans depend on cheap Chinese stuff. The problem here is that corporate profit has nothing to do with the ordinary person's standard of living.

[Bao]

But, are Chinese men racist because they complain about their women going out with Europeans? Or, are they racist against Japanese?

I saw a an ad on a door to a cafe In my 'hometown' In China that they wanted help there. The bottom of it it said: "No black applicants." The cafe was run by a foreigner, an American.

However, there's certainly prejudice against black people in China.

[Steve James]

However, there's certainly prejudice against black people in China.

No doubt, but I'd say that's different from racism. The foreign guy who won't hire black people is "racist" because it may cost someone the opportunity to make a living. The guy might not like Black people, or he might think that Chinese people might not like being served by Black people, or that he'd get flack for not hiring someone Chinese.

Hey, 20 years ago, I considered teaching English in China --because I had my PhD and was working for the agency that was preparing the materials China would use to test the English comprehension of people who would work the Beijing Olympics. Anyway, the guy was honest and said that some of his clients wouldn't want to be taught by an African-American.

Sure, that was an example of prejudice. Perhaps, it was more a case that they wanted to learn English from a White person: just as if they'd wanted to learn Spanish they'd have chose a Spaniard. In the US, people only wanted to learn ma from a Chinese or Japanese. Anyway, the prejudice only guarantees the quality of the instruction in the eyes of the prejudiced.

Afa the Chinese who blackened their faces, do you think it was a way to ridicule dark-skinned people? Is there a prejudice against dark-skinned Asians there? I dunno, but I think the percentage of Black people in China is very small, certainly smaller than the percentage of White people.

[Franklin]

China refused to provide WHO team with raw data on early COVID cases, team member says


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2AD090

China refused to provide WHO team with raw data on early COVID cases, team member says


SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China refused to give raw data on early COVID-19 cases to a World Health Organization-led team probing the origins of the pandemic, one of the team’s investigators said, potentially complicating efforts to understand how the outbreak began.

The team had requested raw patient data on 174 cases that China had identified from the early phase of the outbreak in the city of Wuhan in December 2019, as well as other cases, but were only provided with a summary, said Dominic Dwyer, an Australian infectious diseases expert who is a member of the team.

Such raw data is known as “line listings”, he said, and would typically be anonymised but contain details such as what questions were asked of individual patients, their responses and how their responses were analysed.

“That’s standard practice for an outbreak investigation,” he told Reuters on Saturday via video call from Sydney, where he is currently undergoing quarantine.

He said that gaining access to the raw data was especially important since only half of the 174 cases had exposure to the Huanan market, the now-shuttered wholesale seafood centre in Wuhan where the virus was initially detected.

“That’s why we’ve persisted to ask for that,” Dwyer said. “Why that doesn’t happen, I couldn’t comment. Whether it’s political or time or it’s difficult ... But whether there are any other reasons why the data isn’t available, I don’t know. One would only speculate.”

While the Chinese authorities provided a lot of material, he said the issue of access to the raw patient data would be mentioned in the team’s final report. “The WHO people certainly felt that they had received much much more data than they had ever received in the previous year. So that in itself is an advance.”

A summary of the team’s findings could be released as early as next week, the WHO said on Friday.

The probe had been plagued by delay, concern over access and bickering between Beijing and Washington, which accused China of hiding the extent of the initial outbreak and criticised the terms of the visit, under which Chinese experts conducted the first phase of research.

The team, which arrived in China in January and spent four weeks looking into the origins of the outbreak, was limited to visits organised by their Chinese hosts and prevented from contact with community members, due to health restrictions. The first two weeks were spent in hotel quarantine.

China’s refusal to hand over raw data on the early COVID-19 cases was reported earlier by the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times on Friday.

The WHO did not reply to a request from Reuters for comment. The Chinese foreign ministry did not immediately reply to a request for comment but Beijing has previously defended its transparency in handling the outbreak and its cooperation with the WHO mission.

[roger hao]

I am very surprised at the WHO conclusions..........NOT!

Do you denounce the Cuomo Supremacy? Covered up the body count from the
big mistake. BTW there has been admissions from Cuomo's aid. Not only that -
but blame Trump.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s top aide privately apologized to Democratic lawmakers for withholding the state’s nursing home death toll from COVID-19 — telling them “we froze” out of fear that the true numbers would “be used against us” by federal prosecutors, The Post has learned.

The stunning admission of a coverup was made by secretary to the governor Melissa DeRosa during a video conference call with state Democratic leaders in which she said the Cuomo administration had rebuffed a legislative request for the tally in August because “right around the same time, [then-President Donald Trump] turns this into a giant political football,” according to an audio recording of the two-hour-plus meeting.

[Steve James]

Denounce the Cuomo conspiracy? Sure. More people died in nursing homes than was reported. Let's say he deliberately tried to minimize the covid death toll. Yep, let's Punish every governor and politician who did so.

We're going to reach 500k deaths by the end of the month. Anyway, I don't take the Cuomo outrage coming from people who denied covid was a problem. So, yeah, I think it was a screw up. If he's punished, so be it. But spare us the fake outrage. The people with family members in NY rest homes have every right to be outraged.

[Trick]

I don’t follow too closely what’s going on in America...500k, does that mean half a million more deaths than what’s the everage death toll a year ?.....Oh, I found an figure...Around 2.5 Million on an average a year die in the US...So for about the last 12 months about 3million has died ?

[Steve James]

500K is the number that the people who do the counting say. Last year this time, they said it was less than 500. Actually, I think it was fewer than 100.

Anyway, the same "how many people usually die?" question has been done. I dunno. Maybe nobody dies from covid, right? More people die from the flu and pool accidents? Why get upset? Sound familiar.