Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

There are no Communist states in the USA.

Yes, South Korea didn't have to shut down the economy. That's because they didn't waste time calling Covid19 a Democratic hoax, or pretending that everything was going to be fine. They also had extremely aggressive testing right away. We still don't' have that. So, your comparison is typically asinine and inept.

Given the fact that we couldn't get our act together in time, social distancing mixed with ramped-up testing seems to be the best way to proceed.

You Republicans and Libertarians want to save the economy? Think about what will happen when our meager efforts are loosened and all hell breaks loose. The economy will suffer even more. Better to get strict now and save some lives.

Or, do you still think it's a hoax? Because, a lot of leaders in red states are not taking this seriously.

[Giles]

what i wrote wasnt implying the virus was an creation, i just wanted to point out that chinese scientists work very closely with foreign scientists in the case of virology. the foreign presence in china has been strong at least since mid 2000. corona viruses has all along been on the reserch agenda cooperating with foreign scientists. the foreign institute that has labs in shandong is specialing in corona viruses......so any talk that china didnt let foreign experts in during this covid-19 outbreak sound strange, foreign and chinese scientists must have for a long time understood that an new corona virus might pop up.....China, India and parts of africa are favourite areas for virologists to do reserch it would seem

OK, gotcha! Sorry, in the past I had the impression you sometimes pushed conspiracy theories so I misinterpreted your message here. All good...

[Steve James]

Hey, it's a gamble, and the stakes are very high. So, the question becomes who wants to take the chance. We can certainly save money and be right, and we can save money and be very, very wrong. Yep, we (i.e., the society) can ignore social distancing immediately and accept the consequences. I've heard people who suggest that that would produce a herd immunity. All we have to do is sacrifice those who are severely affected, and the remainder will be stronger. It sounds more like nature's practice of thinning out the herd. That's fine for nature, but it's the opposite of civilization and human societies.

It's nice to think that societies are based on profit. They do not need to break down simply because no one is making money. The comment about communism is interesting because it's often argued that it doesn't work because of human nature. Another interesting question is about what would workers do without companies. Well, they need companies because they need money to eat, pay rent, and buy stuff. If they had that money, they'd only need companies to produce things that they couldn't produce themselves. The independently rich don't need companies --except to make stuff that is made by employees.

Here's an idea, let the government give a company's employees the money to buy the company, rather than give money to the owner. Make the employees the owners, and let them share the profits. The federal (national) government should subsidize the people. It doesn't matter whether what the color of their state is.

[Michael]

It was mentioned that the Those working in the lab May not have taken the protocols seriously enough.

Here's a report that workers in the bio research labs in Wuhan sold infected animals at the local meat markets and some of the monkeys were quite valuable.

I hate to say this, but it sounds plausible for China. Sorry, but it really does in the same way that a US politician cashing out his stocks with insider trading knowledge of a pandemic and not giving warnings sounds plausible.

[Steve James]

Sure, but it's "plausible" because any human is capable of being careless or greedy. It's "possible" because it's not "impossible." Otoh, I don't think it's credible that the virus was created deliberately, or to cause the results it has. We know, otoh, that there are people who literally want to weaponize it as well as those who want to spread it just to prove the predictions are wrong.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

Yes, in an amazing surprise twist, White Nationalists have been reported as wanting to weaponize SARS-COV-2 and Antifa has not!

Oh wait, that's obviously what was going to happen.

[windwalker]

Given the fact that we couldn't get our act together in time, social distancing mixed with ramped-up testing seems to be the best way to proceed.

Part of this was the notification process and “Trump”.
With many asking now why he didn’t act sooner criticizing him then when he did .

The Congress is not functioning as it should

When there was enough empirical evidence the federal government reacted incrementally closing travel from the affected areas.

was in Korea when they had martial law back in the 70s.
Would later work there in the late 90s in the semiconductor Industry.
Their large companies, government, and society are very much in twined in a way that is not possible in the US.

It’s sometimes referred to as the hermit kingdom. This means that although they have a type of democracy it’s still very much based on Confucian values.

In short they can react and do things that are not possible in the type of society that we presently have.
Having said this the US can and will get its act together in a very short time.

[Steve James]

AFA European news, the UK is going into lockdown for three weeks. It had its highest daily mortality rate yesterday. Johnson once suggested leaving things open in order to develop a "herd immunity." Oh well, that didn't last. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-24/ ... RrMMKJOC8M

In Spain, they've found some rest homes where the residents were abandoned, some deceased. https://www.foxnews.com/world/spain-cor ... n-ice-rink

Obviously, this will affect the European and British economy, and that will affect the global economy. We could send everybody back to work, but not in tourism, hotel and service industries, and income from European sources. There are "wall streets" in every European country, and they're all tanking. Ok, another factor is a Russian/Saudi oil war.

India is also going into a three week lock down. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News ... 585040117/

[windwalker]

some humor,,,my daughters sent me

[windwalker]

Lessons from MERS
South Korea learned the importance of preparedness the hard way. In 2015, a South Korean businessman came down with Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) after returning from a visit to three Middle Eastern countries. He was treated at three South Korean health facilities before he was diagnosed with MERS and isolated. By then, he had set off a chain of transmission that infected 186 and killed 36, including many patients hospitalized for other ailments, visitors, and hospital staff. Tracing, testing, and quarantining nearly 17,000 people quashed the outbreak after 2 months. The specter of a runaway epidemic alarmed the nation and dented the economy.

“That experience showed that laboratory testing is essential to control an emerging infectious disease,” Kim says. In addition, Oh says, “The MERS experience certainly helped us to improve hospital infection prevention and control.” So far, there are no reports of infections of COVID-19 among South Korean health care workers, he says.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03 ... ts-success

"middle east". who knew

Now the US has its experience from which to draw from.

Apparently not remembered the last time
this happened.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

some humor,,,my daughters sent me

[Steve James]

Tracing, testing, and quarantining nearly 17,000 people quashed the outbreak after 2 months.

Now the US has its experience from which to draw from.

So, you see how they did it. We have people saying that "it's only the flu." Huge difference.

Yeah, people targeting Asians are stupid. But, they were stupid before any outbreak.

[windwalker]

a lot problems in the US is because of our system of government the way its structured how it works.

Normally, state public health labs and commercial labs would have been able to create their own PCR tests once it was clear the CDC test wasn’t working.

But because the country is under a public health state of emergency, any new test had to be approved for emergency use by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). That slow process also contributed to delays in testing. On February 29th, the agency relaxed that rule, and commercial labs started COVID-19 testing.

The fed gov had to step in to change the rule.

Machines are available that can run PCR tests automatically, which also speeds the process. However, it took companies weeks to develop tests for those automated systems and for the Food and Drug Administration to approve them. The pharmaceutical and diagnostics company Roche, for example, didn’t get approval for an automated test until March 13th.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/17/2118 ... echonology

In the United States, the slow rollout of coronavirus PCR tests has been widely attributed to a combination of stringent rules aimed at ensuring their reliability and a complex web of companies and health care systems responsible for developing, carrying out, and paying for tests.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03 ... p-pandemic

Once it fell under a state of emergency a whole different rule set applied.

A lot the emergency preparedness is directly the responsibility of state governments.

The other countries mentioned korea, taiwan, ect don't have this problem
any action the central gov takes is very direct.

[Steve James]

So, why post it as a model the US can learn from? Secondly, the president should only be following the advice of the medical professionals who've been there through SARS, MERS, H1N1. He can have economic advisers too. However, since he calls this a "war" (now), he doesn't need to be directing the generals, just giving them what they ask for. That's his job. No more should be expected of him than of any ex-game show host and real estate developer who has a hunch. And, people should listen to what the experts are suggesting. It's simple. Stay away from others for a while.

Besides, it's not because the virus may end up killing 1% of a population. It's that the more people who are hospitalized, the less resources there will be --including doctors and nurses who inevitably become infected-- and that will mean no way to treat patients who may die from something else. If there are fewer covid patients, the number of deaths (no matter what it is) will be lower. So, by following the social distancing advice --which is quite possible even in our society-- there will be fewer casualties.

Btw, I don't blame Trump for the lack of medical supplies. It's great that he's using his power to get them to those who need them. Ok, I think that's normal, not heroic. The nurses waiting for them are the heroes. The shortages in the hospital exist because stuff ain't free, so to be efficient and profitable, they hold what they think is "enough." One thing that could happen is that there'll be more pandemic and disaster preparation. That means paying for stuff that we don't need right now.

For instance, it would make sense to raise the levees in New Orleans because we know the sea is rising and storms are getting worse. I.e., if they're built to withstand a cat 4, but you know there'll be cat 5s, building for a cat 5.5 would be insurance. Otherwise, it's just a matter of keeping one's fingers crossed.

[windwalker]

For instance, it would make sense to raise the levees in New Orleans because we know the sea is rising and storms are getting worse. I.e., if they're built to withstand a cat 4, but you know there'll be cat 5s, building for a cat 5.5 would be insurance. Otherwise, it's just a matter of keeping one's fingers crossed.

Nothing to prevent those states from doing so now...

So, why post it as a model the US can learn from?

Don't believe I did, others may have used it as example
ignoring the differences in governments and population.

My post on Korea was meant to show they had a way of dealing with it as one people, nation, one unit
based on recent events that here in the US is really not possible

Koreans, Korea, IME are very unique in some aspects
a kind of warrior society ....

due IMO to this being the US....its different
sometimes the difference is good, sometimes not.

The US does excel in innovation once it gets its feet on the ground, and people start to
understand what they need to do, and not do.