Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

We have now passed 280,000 deaths in the US and daily deaths are as high as they have been, nearing 3000 per day. It looks as though things will only get worse before they (hopefully) get better.

At the same time, there has been a complete dropping of the ball by the federal government with the executive branch focused on dragging out their anti-Democratic antics and refusing to concede the election, the judicial branch now dominated by inexperienced religious wackos and partisan hacks from the Federalist Society who have overturned common-sense restrictions on large indoor gatherings, and the executive branch who are so divided that they cannot get anything done. No matter what one's political bent, we have been failed by our government.

[Steve James]

In an emotional televised address on Nov. 22, Sweden's Prime Minister Stefan Löfven pleaded with Swedes to cancel all nonessential meetings and announced a ban on gatherings of more than eight people, which triggered the closure of cinemas and other entertainment venues. Starting Monday, high schools will be closed.

End of experiment.

[Bao]

In an emotional televised address on Nov. 22, Sweden's Prime Minister Stefan Löfven pleaded with Swedes to cancel all nonessential meetings and announced a ban on gatherings of more than eight people, which triggered the closure of cinemas and other entertainment venues. Starting Monday, high schools will be closed.

End of experiment.

People still don’t care. Busses and the subway are all crowded, people don’t care about distances and very few wear a mask. And the figures continue to rise and rise.

[Giles]

Messenger ribonucleuc acid, or mRNA for short, plays a vital role in human biology, specifically in a process known as protein synthesis. mRNA is a single-stranded molecule that carries genetic code from DNA in a cell’s nucleus to ribosomes, the cell’s protein-making machinery.

So it is supposed to generate proteins that go eat coronavirus.

Not quite that, Roger. FYI...

"Some of the newly created vaccines, including the one now approved in the UK developed by Pfizer/BioNTech, use a fragment of the virus's genetic material - or messenger RNA.

"Injecting RNA into a person doesn't do anything to the DNA of a human cell," says Prof Jeffrey Almond of Oxford University.

It works by giving the body instructions to produce a protein which is present on the surface of the coronavirus.

The immune system then learns to recognise and produce antibodies against the protein."

So the protein itself doesn't 'go out and do things' (which might raise fears of it running of control). It acts as a stimulus to your own immune system to produce the right antibodies. Like it would in response to the actual Covid-19 virus, but according to the studies and tests this process enables your body to produce antibodies much more efficiently than it mostly does in response to to the virus itself. I read and heard several times that the coronavirus itself has a kind of 'stealth' function that to some extent can bypass the normal immune response. So the new mRNA vaccines actually lead to significantly more antibodies being produced than is often the case in an actual infection.

Source for quote above, also including other information items and a few correctives for common Covid-vaxx misunderstandings and myths:

https://www.bbc.com/news/54893437

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

Republicans invite anti-vaxxer to be the lead witness at pre-Covid-19 vaccine rollout hearing. She also doesn't believe in HIV, Climate Change, evolution, or government involvement in healthcare at any level.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 67579.html

[wiesiek]

In an emotional televised address on Nov. 22, Sweden's Prime Minister Stefan Löfven pleaded with Swedes to cancel all nonessential meetings and announced a ban on gatherings of more than eight people, which triggered the closure of cinemas and other entertainment venues. Starting Monday, high schools will be closed.

End of experiment.

People still don’t care. Busses and the subway are all crowded, people don’t care about distances and very few wear a mask. And the figures continue to rise and rise.

I dare to say : it may came out, that it is quite proper, and the best approach...
There was a lot of different plagues thru the history of the humankind, any of them was able to wipe out humans from the planet.
This is kind of cruel story - ...
but my death, or yours doesn`t change anything in planetary course.
What we can see plainly, right now:
USING pandemy by government, or kind of "global moderators"?

vaccination? -yes, BUT after strict examination of it .

[Giles]

vaccination? -yes, BUT after strict examination of it .

Absolutely. But actually that is what the 3-stage clinical trials AND the fairly lengthy examination of the data by the regulatory authorities are all about.
Do you think the regulators hold up a bottle of the vaccine up to the light, shake it and say 'Looks good to me' ?

It's true that one can't 100% exclude the possibility of unforseen side effects emerging in some people after millions of people have been vaccinated. But that's the same with every vaccine and every approved drug - there are some things you can only know after it has been administered on a mass scale. What they can do is follow all the established test/trial protocols strictly and reduce this risk to a tiny probability -- much much smaller than the risk associated with being killed or seriously harmed by Covid-19 itself.

[wiesiek]

major problem with vaccination - who can go for it w/o side effect/s/.
so, examination of the patients is the key.
Unfortunately, we don`t have any good clue for it.
One of my friend get the worst flu in his live AFTER standard anti flu vaccine. (Possibility is),- He probably had viruses in his system already, before the shot...
I never vaccinate myself against the flu, and guess what?: - I never get it,
so
I will believe in my immunity system,
If its not workin` - time to say good bye .

[wiesiek]

PS
Due to the global range of covid, I already went thru it during the spring (can`t be 100% sure `cause didn`t tested ).
Anyway, covid like thousands of different viruses, bacterias and toxic spores, all flying over our heads all the time. In the room where I`m typing right now, like in yours, Giles.
so
my point is - we are live, due to our own immune system.
Our knowledge is very fragmented at best, that`s all .

[Bao]

Do you think the regulators hold up a bottle of the vaccine up to the light, shake it and say 'Looks good to me' ?

Wouldn't surprise me if Pfizers did something like that. Normally a new type of vaccine is tested long time on humans, two years is a standard. None of the long term effects on the Covid-19 vaccines can be estimated. Many developers use older techniques so they have at least an idea about what can happen. But Pfizer is the first to use an experimental drug using a banned method that will have permanent effects on the DNA of the person who uses it.

Pardon me if I am extremely sceptic. Historically speaking, and not a very long time ago, there are in fact several drugs that have reached a market too early and some drugs that have had unforeseen negative effects. So of course sometimes money does in fact speak louder than taking precaution and caring for life. It happens.

[Bao]

We just get more and more evidence that Covid-19 was in fact present in Europe maybe even in the early 2019. Why then do all people still believe it came from China?

Do you still believe that it came from Wuhan? And if yes, why?

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politi ... r-of-2019/

COVID-19 was in Italy before the pandemic started to spread across the country in February, according to a study conducted by the National Cancer Institute of Milan.

Among those who volunteered in experimental cancer therapy, 14% were found to have had antibodies for COVID-19, meaning that the virus was present in Italy since the summer of 2019.

Those who tested positive came from 13 different Italian regions, the majority of whom were from Lombardy.

In 2019, some doctors said they had discovered a more aggressive form of flu that seriously affected older people and those with respiratory problems.

[Giles]

PS
Due to the global range of covid, I already went thru it during the spring (can`t be 100% sure `cause didn`t tested ).
Anyway, covid like thousands of different viruses, bacterias and toxic spores, all flying over our heads all the time. In the room where I`m typing right now, like in yours, Giles.
so
my point is - we are live, due to our own immune system.
Our knowledge is very fragmented at best, that`s all .

You're absolutely right, Wiesiek, that one's own immune system - and doing all the good things to keep it working well - is the most important of all. But your argument here, if I understand you correctly, applies not just to a Covid-19 vaccination but to all vaccinations. Just rely on your immune system, it'll keep you alive and if not, then time to die a natural death... (?). Working on that principle, humanity should never have bothered with vaccinations against smallpox (the great killer, 300 million in the 20th century, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox) or polio, or measles (now starting to make a resurgence because of people rejecting the vaccination). Is that what you're saying?

[Giles]

@Bao. Big pharma corporations really don't have an unblemished track record in many respects. So I understand and indeed share a lot of basic scepticism. But in this case, as I already wrote months ago, I find it really hard to imagine that Pfizer, Modena etc. are going to be cutting any corners, being careless, let alone consciously trying to slip a dodgy product past the regulators and into the world. Because the eyes of the whole scientific medical community, and indeed of the whole world, are firmly on them. Any plan to make a quick buck, or even a quick billion bucks, would be insane in view of the blowback that would happen if a company's flagship Covid vaccine turns out to have bad/serious side effects. The name of the corporation in question, plus the involved decision-makers at the corporation, would be shit for all eternity, both reputation-wise and financially.
There would also be a huge blowback for any regulatory authority that approves a Covid vaccine which later turns out to be a dog.
So a radically different situation than a 'normal' drug or vaccine launch.

Sure, that still doesn't automatically/logically rule out the possibility of one or more of these new vaccines might, just maybe, have bad side-effects. But I think that's actually less likely here than in most cases. Apart from that, this statement of yours
"But Pfizer is the first to use an experimental drug using a banned method that will have permanent effects on the DNA of the person who uses it." is really nonsense. Assuming you're talking about its Covid vaccine, that is. Check out my posting and above all the included link from Tuesday, Dec. 8 in this thread for some more information on this issue.

[Bao]

Apart from that, this statement of yours
"But Pfizer is the first to use an experimental drug using a banned method that will have permanent effects on the DNA of the person who uses it." is really nonsense. Assuming you're talking about its Covid vaccine, that is. Check out my posting and above all the included link from Tuesday, Dec. 8 in this thread for some more information on this issue.

Ok, Giles, that sounds comforting. I’ll take a look at what you wrote earlier. Still, they won’t do 2 years long term tests which is more or less mandatory creating new vaccines. This problem has been brought up by several professional researchers who have expressed their concerns. What I believe is unimportant. But I do think that it’s good to listen to the critics as well and not only be satisfied with what the companies says.

Btw, my wife works as a chemist as AstraZeneca. I do know a little about the different upcoming drugs.

[Steve James]

Afa the vaccine's safety, some people will become sick, some severely, and some might succumb. So far, though, more than 95% of vaccine recipients have not died. I know. That's a silly argument, except that it's the same one used by some in regards to the severity of the virus. Both are sketchy arguments that can't be proven until the case count has stopped.

I think Giles mentioned that every vaccine has possible negative side effects. Otoh, without even the illusory comfort of a vaccine, the alternative is keeping current restrictions in place. "Ya" can't have it all three ways. The virus can't be safe; the vaccine unsafe; and the society has to open up. Well, unless the fact that in that case the US will almost surely see 500K deaths and 5X that number of hospitalizations.

Nope. It's not panic, and it's not an exaggeration. Anyway, it's unlikely that most of us here will have the opportunity to refuse the vaccine any time soon. And, if offered and refused, someone else will surely take it. In fact, I think that demand will quickly outstrip supply --regardless of the resistance to the vaccine. If the situation worsens, imagine World War Z.