roger hao wrote:Giles -
I get your point about global vs USA and agree.
I am a citizen in Brazil and have met people that don't really
know or care about USA -that seems unbelievable to some Americans
but true.
Dr Kaufman states that the SARs 2 virus was never isolated and
amplified properly to be identified as what we assume it is. He claims
that this is exosome and basically auto immune disease. Not a virus.
So here we are developing and forcing the injection of a false vaccine.
I do not agree with the idea that seems to be a rule in RSF that everything
must be debated. Instead I hope that thinkers like yourself could accept the
presentation of a doubt to go and dig deep to prove it out rather than dig in
their heels to protect what is on the video bill boards of an Orwellian society.
Let's say I am walking up the street while you are changing a flat tire. From
my perspective I can see the angle of the jack support is wrong and may let the
vehicle fall. From your perspective it looks fine. In passing I mention this to you
but you dismiss it and under your breath say "idiot". Then 5 minutes later,
stressed by your movement the vehicle falls and breaks your foot. I am not
going to spend all day helping someone that called me an idiot.
"Ah, good question. Does Dr Fauci kidnap children to experiment on in his
secret bunker??
I ask you - Did Epstein kill himself? If he did then OK maybe that is a joke.
If he did not then I say yes that is exactly within the scope of moral range
of Dr Fauci because that is what Epstein was doing along with some world
leaders. This virus/lockdown/vaccine initiative looks like something not
designed to save the world but to control it and profit. With Epstein we got a
quick glimpse of that evil and while his death prevented throwing back the veil
to me it proves that there is truth buried there.
Thanks for your reply. I'll address a few concrete issues you raise. As regards "exosomes", I posted a response/reference to that in the other Covid thread ("
...updates in your location") on
Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:42 am, so you can find it quite easily and I would draw your attention to this once more. Here a researcher in this specific field responds to the claim (I think claim fits better than statement here) by Dr Kaufman regarding the virus and exosomes and explains why Kaufman’s assertion (that the SARS-2 virus “has never been isolated” and is actually an exosome) is bunk. -- The global specialist research community in general is quite clear that SARS Coid-2 exists as a virus and I can dig out some other sources explanations about this if you want, but don't want to add too much freight here from the get-go. -- So since this exosome claim is demonstrably not true, your follow-on assertion building on this premise that "we are developing and forcing the injection of a false vaccine" is not true either. If it were true, then it would imply the
worldwide conspiratorial involvement of the huge majority of researchers and research organizations who, seeing as how they are actually hands-on experts in this field, will know full well that massive and terrible deceit is underway and are still playing along or actively contributing. (For whatever reason you might think that might be...). Or they are all incompetent and would be better employed pulling weeds from fields.
I develop this issue through to the end a little more there because I think it shows the kind of thinking involved. It’s an approach that, if followed logically through to the end, either doesn't make sense or alternatively concludes that the whole world governance, including things like world healthcare, are all part of one big terrible conspiracy to damage (enslave, exterminate?) the greatest part of humanity. Towards the end of your contribution you seem to make this viewpoint more explicit. If you want to go there, that's your prerogative. But I won’t follow you there or engage with that because I think it’s silly and I would need some more cohesive arguments to persuade me to engage with that (in this forum, today).
--> I should add once more that I'm aware that all organizations are to some extent flawed, as are the people working in them. Mistakes will be made, some people will knowingly behave badly in some ways. That's human reality in every area of human endeavour. I don't have rose-tinted spectacles in that respect
But that's not a sound basis for making the kind of conspiracy-based general assumption I point to above, be this explicit or implicit. <--
I do not agree with the idea that seems to be a rule in RSF that everything must be debated. Instead I hope that thinkers like yourself could accept the presentation of a doubt to go and dig deep to prove it out rather than dig in their heels to protect what is on the video bill boards of an Orwellian society.
No rules here in RSF that I know of apart from the implicit ones, I guess, that we don't actually threaten each other or really, seriously, nastily insult each other (i.e. no flame wars, please). If you don't want to engage in debate, then don't. I don't want to sometimes, and sometimes I do.
However, you often do more than "present a doubt" regarding this current topic, and you actually make some quite strong or categorical statements, but whatever: I try to engage with some of these statements or doubts and present my own views in response. I do my best to be rational, to present scientifically oriented statements or arguments without being a scientist myself. If I were just to dig in my heels then my response would be more like "No, wrong! Na-na-na! End of story!". If someone points to a hole in my arguments or statements, as have both you and Windwalker in recent days, then I do my best to acknowledge this and rectify. And in this spirit of engagement: unless I understood you wrong, you just accused me of protecting the propaganda of an Orwellian society. Have you actually read "1984" ? It's a great book, also very very bleak. Which real society are you referring to? The USA? Europe? ‘The world?’ In our parts of the world at least, I don’t see people being arrested (and tortured, or brainwashed) for saying that they don’t like the president, or the government, or also for saying that they think that Covid-19 isn’t a real disease, or that Bill Gates is a Satanic villain, or for posting or reposting or praising pernicious junk like the Judy Mikovits YT video we had here recently. I see a lot of debate and disagreement, which is part of a liberal democracy. (Semi-)lockdowns have been imposed in almost all countries in response to the danger of an out-of-control pandemic, and some people (although in most countries not the majority) disagree with these measures in total or in part. In ‘our’ countries, people are allowed to disagree publicly with this. ‘Free speech’ is never an absolute: in the sense that a whole spectrum of messages with a clear intent or effect of causing serious harm to others will often be suppressed, but even here those issuing the messages will generally remain free from prosecution (in the US more so than in Europe). If someone says something that other people regard as wrong or nonsensical or even harmful, then other people may well voice their disagreement and also provide arguments for doing so. In RSF, too, no?. So I don’t see how “Orwellian” is a useful or apt term in this context.
I don’t think you’re an idiot. I don’t think anyone currently posting on RSF is an idiot (in the fairly recent past there were maybe one or two exceptions
), although there are some with whom, on some issues, I disagree to some extent or very strongly. Also when you suddenly throw Epstein into the argument, or Bill Gates in your last posting, and in a way that I don’t feel stands up to analysis, I still wouldn't regard you as an idiot. Saying that some of your statements don’t hold water with regard to demonstrable facts and to logic, and setting out why I believe this to be so, is something else. And this isn’t – to my mind – a condemnation of you personally.
I’m not going to further address your words on, and apparent equation of, Epstein and Fauci and, along with this, your feeling (!!) that “the virus/lockdown/vaccine initiative” is part of a general world evil, because I can’t see any sensible basis for doing this. My impression is that, at this point, you are being driven by strong emotions that power your discourse more than does a logical argumentative thread. I won’t call your emotions into question, that’s your prerogative, but for me it makes the ‘argument’ there a non-starter. And since you end your contribution with this section, I’ll end my contribution here as well.
