Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

[Bao]

Why Sweden is going through a crazy experiment designed by a mad scientist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzr4kRxr9x8

[Steve James]

I wasn't going to post these anymore. However, I hear that there are politicians suggesting that the "social distancing" measures are too extreme because they're affecting the economy. Look it up, and where the idea started.

AUSTIN, Texas — Texas’ lieutenant governor said Monday night that the U.S. should get back to work in the face of a global pandemic and that people over the age of 70, who the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says are at higher risk for the coronavirus, will “take care of ourselves.”

Republican Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick made the comments while appearing on Fox News’ Tucker Carlson Tonight. Patrick, 69, went on the program after President Donald Trump said earlier Monday that he wanted the country getting back to business in weeks, not months.

But, we knew that was coming. Anyway, as of yesterday in the US.

COVID-19: U.S. at a Glance* Saturday (2/14/20)
Total cases: 1,629
Total deaths: 41
Jurisdictions reporting cases: 47 (46 states and District of Columbia)

Total cases: 3,487 Monday
Total deaths: 68
Jurisdictions reporting cases: 53 (49 states, District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, and US Virgin Islands)

Total cases: 4,226 Tuesday
Total deaths: 75

Total cases: 7,038 Wednesday
Total deaths: 97

Total cases: 10,442 Thursday
Total deaths: 150

Total cases: 15,219 Friday
Total deaths: 201

Total cases: 33,404 Monday (2/23/20)
Total deaths: 400

I also just read that there are people who want to deliberately spread the virus in communities they don't like. Remarkable.

[Steve James]

Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine phosphate to treat coronavirus

https://nypost.com/2020/03/23/man-dies- ... R_VzDaSa2o

They had to tell Jim Bakker (the televangelist) to stop hawking "Silver solution" as a cure for corona viruses.

[windwalker]

Some of mentioned Taiwan is example for how to handle the spread of the virus and why they handle it earlier

The government of Taiwan attempted to warn the U.N.-led World Health Organization (WHO) of the deadly potential of the Wuhan coronavirus in December 2019, but the WHO failed to share Taiwan’s findings on the virus to the world, the country’s U.S. office confirmed to Breitbart News

.

Taiwan reportedly had intelligence on the virus early through doctors in Wuhan. Scientists have now traced the first known novel coronavirus case back to November 17, 2019, documented in the central Chinese metropolis of Wuhan. A University of Toronto study found that warnings from doctors in Wuhan to others that they were facing a new contagious disease began appearing online in December, almost immediately followed by censorship and arrests.

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/03/ ... -december/

Some scientists in the US at the local level also noted the findings but we are ignored by their bureaucracies that supposed to react to it.

[windwalker]

MANHATTAN, New York (WABC) -- New York City's annual Lunar New Year observances culminated Sunday with a spectacular parade through Manhattan's Chinatown, featuring amazing visuals, delicious treats and mesmerizing cultural performances.

This may have contributed in part to New York being the most infected area in the US.

[Steve James]

No need for speculation. There were nothing but warnings that the Lunar New Year travels would carry the virus around the world. It was in the news all the time. At the time, however, it was a "Chinese" and Asian problem. Of course, the Lunar New Year celebrations started after the new virus was detected. In fact, Washington State had the first outbreak (concentrated first in a nursing home). Fwiw, I know for a fact that the first big outbreak in NY happened well north of the city, not downtown where Chinatown is, in another nursing home. None of the first cases were even Asian.

Besides NYC is also an international travel and business hub. We have the most cases means that we were exposed a while back. There's no easy way to determine whether the people who first exposed us lived here, were visitors, just passed through, etc. What can be predicted is that there have already been many exposures. Checking the progression of the disease here will give an idea of how it will play out in other dense cities. For ex., New Orleans cases are rising at a faster rate than New York's.

Btw, if the Chinese downplayed the seriousness of the virus, it was for the same face-saving reasons that US politicians have downplayed it. Or, they downplayed it to the public while privately dumping stock. Or they said it was only the flu and that calling it a serious threat was just a way to criticize a politician. That's why there are still politicians saying that it's not as bad as "they" say. Oh well, Rand Paul getting tested and then swimming and chumming with his Republican colleagues.

Incidentally, I think I had it with very mild symptoms (cough, fatigue, diarrhea for a few days). That was about a week and a half ago. Actually, I hope that was it. I only think so because of the diarrhea, actually. It's not a common symptom, but I know that something bacterial or viral was being expelled because of the smell. It might be tmi, but I noted it, and it went away after about three days. FWIW.

[Trick]

the "virus" lab that is located in wuhan(some in the thread call it a bio weapon lab, as if they would now about that ) has for a long time worked together with foreign scientists on regular basis, mainly from africa and india. european and american virology institutes/labs/scientists has had a presence here in china at least ever since the sars outbreak including one of the foremost foreign reserch institutes on corona viruses who has a ultra modern lab located in shandong.. so foreign specialists in this field has been around here at least since the mid 2000

Before another conspiracy theory gains too much traction here... Here's an excerpt from a text I translated from Dutch back at the end of January, an interview with two virologists at Infectious Diseases and Immunology (Faculty of Veterinary Medicine), University of Utrecht (at the time when some people were claiming the virus came from snakes):

“This [new corona]virus almost certainly derives from bats and it is genetically almost identical to a virus that has previously been found in bats. But we still don’t know if this virus comes to us straight from bats or via another mammal. The story now doing the rounds that the virus comes from snakes is without foundation and isn’t backed up by the analysis of the genetic material.”
I can provide the source reference if desired.

If this was some kind of 'genetically engineered' virus, I'm pretty damn sure that these and many other independently working virologists would have picked up on any kind of strangeness, any kind of gene splicing or anomalies. Nada. So no evidence whatsoever to doubt that the virus emerged from the 'wildlife market' environments all on its little own initiative. And then was able to start spreading so effectively because the (local) Chinese authorities initially went into complete denial.

But if you're not implying that the virus might have emerged from a lab somewhere, then please excuse me for the misunderstanding. All good.

what i wrote wasnt implying the virus was an creation, i just wanted to point out that chinese scientists work very closely with foreign scientists in the case of virology. the foreign presence in china has been strong at least since mid 2000. corona viruses has all along been on the reserch agenda cooperating with foreign scientists. the foreign institute that has labs in shandong is specialing in corona viruses......so any talk that china didnt let foreign experts in during this covid-19 outbreak sound strange, foreign and chinese scientists must have for a long time understood that an new corona virus might pop up.....China, India and parts of africa are favourite areas for virologists to do reserch it would seem

[Trick]

alot about the US with some mentions of south korea and italy......How about nort korea? did the virus jump that country, any reports of the situation there? India i read will close their borders but no more info, is the virus hittin that country too? How about Africa ? maybe that continent too warm for covid-19?

[Michael]

Has this been discussed much yet? Of course there is widespread speculation that the proximity of the corona outbreak to China's only level 4 bio lab suggests an accidental leak and emphasizes questions that were asked and studied since the 2003 SARS outbreak about the risks of trying to engineer these viruses to jump from bats to humans, as well as the risks of exotic meat markets where such animals are sold and eaten.

The risks of research into coronavirus and unsanitary practices in China revealed by the SARS epidemic were called into question. The sale of exotic animals that are corona virus carriers continued in China after 2003 SARS.

Screenshot of abstract
https://i.imgur.com/cYB865v.jpg

Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus as an Agent of Emerging and Reemerging Infection
C LINICAL M ICROBIOLOGY R EVIEWS , Oct. 2007, p. 660–694
PDF download

The ability to engineer a corona virus from a known carrier that is sold in extremely unsanitary conditions, like a horshoe bat, was questioned in an article in Nature mag in November 2015. Does the benefit justify the risk?

Engineered Bat Virus Stirs Debate Over Risky Research
Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.
Declan Butler
12 November 2015

More debate on this topic from 2016.

Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate
The creation of a chimeric SARS-like virus has scientists discussing the risks of gain-of-function research.
Jef Akst
Nov 16, 2015

[windwalker]

Has this been discussed much yet? Of course there is widespread speculation that the proximity of the corona outbreak to China's only level 4 bio lab suggests an accidental leak and emphasizes questions that were asked and studied since the 2003 SARS outbreak about the risks of trying to engineer these viruses to jump from bats to humans, as well as the risks of exotic meat markets where such animals are sold and eaten.

The risks of research into coronavirus and unsanitary practices in China revealed by the SARS epidemic were called into question. The sale of exotic animals that are corona virus carriers continued in China after 2003 SARS.

Screenshot of abstract
https://i.imgur.com/cYB865v.jpg

The study: Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus as an Emerging and Reemerging Infection

PDF download: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176051/pdf/0023-07.pdf

The ability to engineer a corona virus from a known carrier that is sold in extremely unsanitary conditions, like a horshoe bat, was questioned in an article in Nature mag in November 2015. Does the benefit justify the risk?

Engineered Bat Virus Stirs Debate Over Risky Research
Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.
Declan Butler
12 November 2015

More debate on this topic from back then.

Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate
The creation of a chimeric SARS-like virus has scientists discussing the risks of gain-of-function research.
Jef Akst
Nov 16, 2015

Read some reports about the lab, it is interesting.
One would expect that if any type of bioengineering was involved the
many people looking at the genome would’ve found it already, although some have speculated.

It was mentioned that the Those working in the lab May not have taken the protocols seriously enough.
Happens. Remini me of Chernobyl in Russia.

[Michael]

To be fair, China did shut down live chicken sales/slaughter in Hong Kong soon after the bird flu, and then over years that followed, they gradually stopped it in major cities like Guangzhou. They do make efforts to improve, but it's not easy to change people's habits.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

I noticed that Dr. Fauci was missing during yesterday's address and did some digging around. He has apparently been barred from talking publicly after contradicting the President. Also, it may be a signal as new reports indicate that Trump wants to end the social distancing and sheltering in place recommendations to save the economy. When the press asked him if medical experts were on board with this, his answer was that "if the doctors had their way, we would close the entire world for three years." So, I took that as an emphatic no.

Things could get much worse if Trump gets his way or someone doesn't change his mind. One of my biggest fears is that reinfection could be a possibility. So, even in states that get a handle on this in the short term could be subject to reinfection by these bozo Republican states where the politicians are promoting going out to eat and socialize.

My wife works at the big hospital downtown and they are under-protected, had their hours cut, and are working in tents testing Covid patients without pay (seems to me that they should be getting hazard pay).

Everyone is on pins and needles in Chicago. I almost had to defend myself from a guy in line at the Ace who berated me for wearing a mask in public telling me, "Go home if you're scared muther fucker." He got in my space and it was very close to going off the wheels.

Then, yesterday, these people in the park in front of my apt had their dogs off-leash. Hank and I had literally just stepped out the door and these two dogs charged us with intent to attack. I had to repeatedly kick and stomp the dogs to keep them off my Hank before their owners ran up (breaking social distancing). They didn't even apologize. Hank was fine, but WTF?

I'm not too worried about myself, but what if that had happened with my wife? Or what if one of these assholes goes off in the testing tents? Or gas station when I am not there to step in?

So, Covid wise, things are not that bad here yet, but people are already losing their shit.

[Michael]

I don't know which one of those is more troubling. I guess the dog thing happens somewhat often, it's happened to me in the past, but someone berating you for wearing a mask is illogical, to say the least.

The amount of news and info. and social media amplification of it and rumors seems to be hysteria-inducing.

[windwalker]

Things could get much worse if Trump gets his way or someone doesn't change his mind. One of my biggest fears is that reinfection could be a possibility. So, even in states that get a handle on this in the short term could be subject to reinfection by these bozo Republican states where the politicians are promoting going out to eat and socialize.

forgot to mention the communist blue states.
Wow

The administration and medical advisers both working towards the same ends taking into account the mitigation factors versus societal economic impact. Other countries like Taiwan and Korea did not shut down their economies .

It remains to be seen how this virus compares to other viruses of the past.

[Steve James]

Other countries like Taiwan and Korea did not shut down their economies .

No, only other countries like "Europe," Australia, Brazil, Japan, etc. Do you wonder why the UK closed all its pubs?

Oh, "the communist blue states" is kinda funny. I'll bet that the red states will be asking for the same money. They won't call it socialism, though.