Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

[Trick]

To add. Some time ago I spoke with an Singaporean friend living in Dalian, he said the only cases he heard of where of two Americans(USA) entering Dalian from abroad was caught being infected, further what happened to them was not reported

[Giles]

Did anyone watch what Windwalker posted -

Interesting that the man that got the Nobel prize for developing the test
says it is not to be applied as a quantitative test.

Yes, I did. Sorry, Roger, me turning up again like a bad penny.

It’s another typical mixture of correct, very basic facts (the bare bones of what exosomes are and what viruses are), then moving into false, unfounded, scientifically nonsensical comparisons and correlations, or in other words huge non-sequiturs; and from there once more into la-la-land. E.g. 4:75 onwards: Lots of people in New York got ill all at the same time (referring to the last couple of months) because people were “purging their poisons” at the same time and making other people ill too. Do we laugh or cry at this point?
The Nobel Prize winner isn’t even given a 5 second sound bite, which makes me suspect very strongly that what he was actually saying, certainly if put into context, is NOT what this video claims is his opinion. It certainly won’t be in line with the content of this video, because science Nobel Prize winners, even if they are not always right, are not idiots. The content/message of this video is, in sum, idiotic.

And yes, exosomes . Remember, any specialist in the field can tell exosomes from viruses, like any fisherman can tell flatfish from lobsters, even though they are roughly the same size and both live in the sea. I’ll provide a different source this time:

“To find out what an exosome is and if these are related to the COVID-19 Chequeado, the South American fact checker consulted Julieta Alcain, a biologist from the University of Buenos Aires (UBA) and a member of Conicet. “An exosome is like a kind of extra small 'bag' that comes off the cells and that usually contains some material from that cell: they are ways for the cells to 'communicate' with each other, and normally what is inside is not usually pathogenic or dangerous ”, explained the specialist.

Regarding whether exosomes could be linked to COVID-19, he explained: "No, it has no link to COVID-19 since it is caused by a virus that has a completely different composition and, in fact, we now know this virus completely, because we know all the genes that compose it and we also know that it is not an exosome. ”

He also consulted Florencia Menay, a biologist at the Institute of Virology and Technological Innovations and also a member of Conicet, specialized in the study of exosomes. The researcher explained that "although exosomes have similarities to viruses, such as their small size on the order of nanometers, their nature is very different." "Exosomes are not infective, and if you analyze the exosomes of an uninfected cell, you shouldn't find any component of the virus there," he said.

Finally, he clarified that "exosomes also have a lipid bilayer [like the virus] but its composition is different, they do not have a crown shape and through the electron microscope they look different from what the coronavirus looks, added to the fact that they have genetic material too, but this genetic material corresponds to information from the human body cell and is not a single genome, as is the case with the virus. ”
https://chequeado.com/el-explicador/no- ... les-de-5g/

Towards the end: “What if you heard that there are virologists who believe the viruses are actually exosomes?” Nice question. What if you heard that there are experienced practitioners of Chinese martial arts who believe that xingyiquan is actually a folk dance for batting away horseflies and stamping on cockroaches. Interesting, huh? I mean, it really makes you think… Maybe there are MANY CMA peeps who believe this. So time to change your training paradigm if you don’t want to be left behind among the sheeple.

I won’t take apart many of the other “arguments” presented in the video this time, don’t want to write another two A4 pages, and that would be keeping things to the minimum. So why bother… It’s another bundle of cherry-picking, distortion on the brink of lies, some real juicy lies, and (presumably intentional) nonsense.

There is no “emerging theory of exosomes” with regard to Covid-19. Not among any scientists in the field, anyway, maybe among some YT video makers. The subtext of the video is that Covid-19 doesn’t exist. Thanks!!!

[roger hao]

Giles -
I knew you would jump on that aspect of the vid.
In your spirit of debate. My earlier comments to you about debate
was not understood - you took it point by point.
I am hoping that if your kids come to you saying Uncle did something
inappropriate you will go and pound on Uncle for an answer.
What I am hoping you will see in that article is that the testing
is flawed - the numbers are flawed - and that makes stats and conclusions
taken from them flawed. Will you debunk Kary Mullis?

[everything]

This one is for WISIEK who was telling us about H2O2 a few weeks ago.

Sorry it's just a blog but was seeing news about it recently:
http://www.drwlc.com/blog/2020/03/21/hy ... infection/

Nebulize H2O2 as prevention/treatment. Kills the cells that become "virus factories" rather than "killing" a virus.

[roger hao]

Funny -
This is exactly what Trump asked if we could do.
Just substitute disinfectant for H2O2.

[Steve James]

Please do not drink hydrogen peroxide or inject it even if Trump suggested it. SMH.

[Edit] Apologies, my bad. It's none of my business. If someone thinks that drinking H2O2 will help prevent or treat an imaginary corona virus or a real flu, have a glass if your doctor oks it.

At any rate, I don't think that disinfecting surfaces using nebulized hydrogen peroxide has anything to do with ingesting disinfectants. And, ammonia and alcohol are also disinfectants, but I'll stick to drinking alcohol --for medicinal purposes.

Hey, maybe Trump's doctor will prescribe him some h2o2 to go with his hydrochloroquine.

[everything]

you can use it as a mouthwash etc.

the nebulizer is for turning a liquid into a gas state for inhaling (like for asthma treatments).

it would be good for it to go through FDA approved trials. OTOH, it doesn't seem like a Big Pharma company has a lot to gain since it didn't invent/discover anything. so not sure if that's likely to happen.

[Steve James]

you can use it as a mouthwash etc.

Sure. It's safe to rinse your mouth out with it, and much stronger solutions are used for teeth whitening. If you leave 3% h2o2 in your mouth for a long time, it will burn your gums. Like I said, I don't think it's wise to suggest or imply that drinking or injecting hydrogen peroxide is safe --unless it's one's doctor making the suggestion.

I know the claim that h2o2 "kills" viruses has been around since the 80s and 90s. But, we still have the seasonal flu. It's possible that big pharma doesn't want the public to know.

[everything]

some slight clarifications on the claims (based only on my reading)

- nobody (as far as I can tell) says to drink it, quite the contrary
- the post mentions there was a doctor who suggested injection (not practical)
- it doesn't kill viruses. it kills the cells that help viruses propagate.
- other than a few doctors making anecdotal claims, there don't seem to be studies on safety/efficacy.

- -

for the Big Pharma question, I suppose if there isn't a profit motive for intellectual property developed, maybe there are other organizations more "purely" interested to test these kinds of treatments.

for disinfecting surfaces (not humans), it seems more cost efficient / less harmful (turns to water and oxygen) than bleach, etc.

maybe wisiek will see this and comment some more.

[Steve James]

I gargle with hydrogen peroxide and sometimes use it on topical wounds. It's been used for several weeks as a way to disinfect ppes in NYC. Is it safe to ingest or inject? Rely on the advice of someone who cares for you medically, not the internet or Trump.

No. I don't think there's a conspiracy to keep people from knowing. Besides, the companies that make it can always raise the price based on supply and demand. I also think there are too many doctors who would spread the word. Again. Talk to your doctor.

[meeks]

Florida’s scientist was fired for refusing to ’manipulate’ COVID-19 data
https://newsvoice.com/i/4537021

Rebekah Jones, the data chief who designed Florida’s COVID-19 dashboard, alleges she was forced to resign from her job because she refused to change data that would ’drum up support for the plan to reopen’. Jones said that she was ordered to censor some data that would support reopening the state and she refused, leading to her termination from her position as Graphic Information Systems manager.

[Giles]

Giles -
I knew you would jump on that aspect of the vid.
In your spirit of debate. My earlier comments to you about debate
was not understood - you took it point by point.
I am hoping that if your kids come to you saying Uncle did something
inappropriate you will go and pound on Uncle for an answer.
What I am hoping you will see in that article is that the testing
is flawed - the numbers are flawed - and that makes stats and conclusions
taken from them flawed. Will you debunk Kary Mullis?

If you or anyone else would like to post a video indicating why coronavirus testing is flawed (there are several variants of testing, by the way) and which itself is based on rational argument and (more or less) science, then I would be happy to engage with that, too. (It's already common knowledge and not denied by the scientific community that some test methods, or even more the actual products based on them, have not been fully reliable. Which doesn't mean, however, that current testing and the delivered results are essentially wrong.)

The thing is, in the posted video the majority of the base claims and the majority of the arguments built on them are rubbish. Hence also the case made by the video as to why SARS Cov-19 testing may be questionable is also rubbish. I understood your previous comment about debate. But what is there to debate with you here, if not working from the statements made in the video? I mean, if I say I want to discuss/debate the origins of taijiquan and I do this by posting the film "Tai Chi Master",
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_Chi_Master_(film)
saying "Check out the film, many interesting points made here, calls into question a lot of received wisdom about the origins!", how should one respond? The only sensible response I can imagine would be to say: Giles, maybe we can discuss the subject in some way, but I have to point out first of all that this film is fiction, it has nothing to do with any real-world possibilities about how taijiquan originated. So we can't use it as a basis for debate, apart from showing how any historical reality will be very different to the film story.

Will you debunk Kary Mullis?

No. His 1993 statement about his PCR test (which identifies the RNA of the virus, as opposed to the antibodies produced in response to it) not being recommended for infectious diseases is because of the chance of false negatives. Which means that there's a chance that the test will miss some people who have been infected by a particular virus. Meaning that taking the results of the PCR test alone, there's a chance that more people have been infected by SARS CoV-19. But not many times more, in line with current testing accuracy then possibly up to ca. 33% more. That's why, to get the bigger picture of what's going on in a population, it should be conducted in tandem with the antibodies test.
But this isn't anything close to the arguments applied in the video, which goes off in directions that would have Dr. Mullis (and his motorbike) spinning in the grave. The video itself makes no case about the reliability or not of PCR testing, because it's banging on about the disease being caused by exosomes (been there, done that, don't wanna go back... )
Source: https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-comments-on-different-types-of-test-for-covid-19/

And on a personal level: I freely admit that videos like these, which make staggeringly false claims about things like basic virology and infectious diseases - and probably do this knowingly, at least to some extent - tend to get my goat. Maybe I'm seeing it as a civic duty to dismantle these, since I currently have more time on my hands. But any more responses by me in this vein on RSF will surely be repetitive and maybe boring for forum members, so I guess I'll give it a rest from now on.

PS. I don't really get what you're saying about a child-molesting uncle in connection with the issue of fair debate.

[roger hao]

Sorry Giles -
I meant ( about the Uncle thing ) that I hope you are not
the "nothing behind the veil" non-conspiracy / Uncle wouldn't do that /
the policeman wouldn't lie, type of guy.

[Michael]

[Michael]