Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Giles on Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:36 am

windwalker wrote:
So, dear WW, that's why I "feel qualified to judge Dr Gold's findings". Because they aren't "findings", they are politically driven and often logically flawed claims. Get the difference?


your not a doctor, who has treated patients for covid 19
you're a "state-certified naturopath"


Because I downloaded their white paper in order to examine the findings I can make my own decision as to whether I agree or not. You and others cannot because they are censored by those in Control of the platforms with their rationale
for not allowing you to see it.

Get the difference?


Sorry, very busy now, so just a quick answer then I have to run.
I didn't mention my status as a state-certified naturopath as a way of saying I'm qualified to talk about HCQ. Rather, that because I hold a certain (low ;) ) level of knowledge about conventional medicine (qualifying involves passing a fairly tough test in this) and I have some healing/therapeutic experience, which may even sound convincing to some viewers of YouTube etc., DOESN'T mean I'm an "expert" whose voice should be placed on an equal footing with real, acknowledged experts in the fields of virology, epidemiology etc. Gold claims to have (successfully) treated patients with Covid-19 using HCQ. I already presented a few reasons why I find her account, her argumentation, her motives and thus her current credibility to be very low at the moment. Put bluntly, unless her 'successful treatments' can be substantiated by stringent peer review and duplication of results by other (non-Tea Party-backed) research groups then basically I suspect her of lying.
Neither you nor I can really get to grips with her own account in the white paper - we're simply not qualified. Peer reviewers would be qualified. When she talks in the video, I am however 'qualified' enough to tell that she's not straight-up. Hence my considerable scepticism about her in this respect.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Giles on Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:43 am

Trick wrote:Naturopath!?,,,,,,is that the same as Anti-vaccer and Herd-immunity'ist ??....8-)


Not necessarily. In Germany, you have to pass the Heilpraktiker exam and gain the qualification in order to practice any "healing", "curative" and/or "alleviating" method. The exam itself is purely about conventional medicine, and hence is science-based. Once you have the qualification, you can then go off in pretty much any direction you like, subject to sensible limitations. Many of my "colleague" Heilpraktiker are indeed of the more esoteric or even anti-science, anti-conventional medicine persuasion, and I'd say some are pretty much wacko. But we're not all like that ;) . Practising a non-conventional, non-science-recognized healing art doesn't automatically mean one is at odds with science or conventional medicine. Just like some 'conventional' medical practitioners are also open to some (but not all!) 'alternative' methods. Some even do both, such as a family doctor of my acquaintance who worked for many years in A&E and also gives craniosacral treatments.
Synergy is possible.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:52 am


Secondly, it argues that wearing masks is unnecessary. Most of the "experts" agree. So, in a surge in a pandemic, outlets decided to remove a video that would encourage people to disobey or ignore the guidelines set down by their own disease control specialists. However, you're going to spread it in the interest of free speech.


For one who talks about Orwellian, bravo well done .
Guidelines are not laws. By the same logic one could argue that 95% negative
Reporting on an administration would tend to encourage people not to vote for
it regardless of actual events.

In China the government controls this, in the US private enterprises that seem to work against the government that allows them the freedom to do so control it.

The government in it’s own interest and those It represents, has rules that it will start to be enforcing just as it does on all other entities that are publishers for the same reasons.

The virus will spread regardless of any mitigation measure,
the question is rate of spread, actual lethality that measures are based on

In certain states they want to limit the number of people one can have in their house.
Naturally this never seems to affect those who advocate such measures.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:03 am

Alien DNA. It's just another view just as valid as any other. ;D
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:05 am

Put bluntly, unless her 'successful treatments' can be substantiated by stringent peer review and duplication of results by other (non-Tea Party-backed) research groups then basically I suspect her of lying.


Yes let’s be blunt.

Have you reviewed their white paper?
If not why not?

Why do doctors treating patients have to be backed by the tea party, or any party?
Kinda the real question right?

Assuming you have not read their white paper you’re making accusations that have no basis .
Once you read it, or if you had you can point to some facts or parts of it that you have contention with.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:57 am

I actually know a bit about academic publishing, first hand. They came out with a paper; they reached a conclusion; there's been no peer review; and the information was considered dangerous.

Like I said, because you're apparently outraged at the censorship, you will repost it just to make sure that everyone you contact knows it --not because it was true, since the drug has been tested elsewhere, but because it has been censored. And, the assertion is that it's been censored because Trump retweeted it. So, his supporters will say that wearing masks won't help, and the virus will spread. Just as its doing.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:33 am

Question: are school children going to be tested for the corona virus? every day?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Hb1OVlvNU
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:49 am

Like I said, because you're apparently outraged at the censorship, you will repost it just to make sure that everyone you contact knows it --not because it was true, since the drug has been tested elsewhere, but because it has been censored. And, the assertion is that it's been censored because Trump retweeted it. So, his supporters will say that wearing masks won't help, and the virus will spread. Just as its doing.






Like I said, you’re no mind reader. You seem to assign what’s in your own mind to others.
Might be something to check out.

The conversation evolved to censorship, based on the information Intended to allow others to make up their own mind was censored .

You and others keep assigning motivation . to those you have never met or have any idea about. Anything presented as a difference of opinion turns into “his supporter”.

Had you read the white papers that they presented, the rationale for why the information was censored was laid out based on a number of factual events that happened. Whether you agree with their assessment or not it’s up to you.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby LaoDan on Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:51 am

There is a grey area when it comes to prescribing drugs, which appear to be safe for their approved uses, for unapproved situations. Hydroxychloroquine is obviously not approved for use as a treatment for the coronavirus since the virus is too new for definitive studies to have been conducted such that consensus could be reached about its safety and efficacy. But anecdotal evidence is insufficient for science, and any trained researchers should know this, as should the doctors in the America’s Frontline Doctors video. But doctors are human and can let things like political and religious beliefs, as well as emotions like pride or resentment at being told that they are not giving quality care, to influence their objectivity.

Dr. Fauci seems to me to be a much more reliable (and nonpolitical) source, and his assessment is that the best studies, with randomized control groups, etc., do not show any significant benefit for treating COVID-19. So, it does not appear to be efficacious, and therefore should probably not be used for COVID-19.

As to its safety, even 65 years of safe usage for other conditions does not mean that it would be safe for other applications. The approved uses do not include patients with low blood oxygen levels, and other possible conditions (like clotting blood, etc.) that come with COVID-19.

As to free speech, speech that intentionally or unintentionally can harm others is not protected. That is why there are libel laws as well as it being illegal to falsely yell “fire” in crowded movie theaters! Someone yelling “fire” for their own amusement when there is no actual fire, should not be excused by the claim that those who hear the yell can judge for themselves and act accordingly (i.e., “free speech”). If content providers think that speech on their forum is being dishonest and could harm their users, then shouldn’t they be able to remove those posts (within the constraints of discrimination, etc.), especially if they violate the forum’s use policies that users agree to when they sign on to use the service?
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:00 am

If content providers think that speech on their forum is being dishonest and could harm their users, then shouldn’t they be able to remove those posts (within the constraints of discrimination, etc.), especially if they violate the forum’s use policies that users agree to when they sign on to use the service?


They are not subject to liability due to a carve out in the law based on the fact that they presented themselves as content platforms, not providers , subject to the laws of free speech within the United States.

This will be changed, or updated allowing them to be viewed as publishers which they have become.
Subject to the same laws that publishers are subjected to for the material they publish or allow to be published.

Am I correct in assuming that many here are in favor of allowing private entities to determine what is acceptable speech or information on the Internet or not?
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:16 am

Shortly after removing the footage of the livestream, Twitter limited the Breitbart News official account, which means the account cannot be used to send tweets. A Twitter spokesperson told Breitbart News: “Tweets with the video are in violation of our COVID-19 misinformation policy. We are taking action in line with our policy here:


What happens if the information claimed as true information,
is found to be miss information, should they be held liable for it?

What happens when this is extended viewpoints that they do not favor?
It is already, which is why it’s becoming a threat to free discourse The United States claims to have
in it’s society.

The problem with most of these entities is that they have become monopolies.
Once they get broken up this too will be rectified.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby LaoDan on Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:46 am

Those who are unsatisfied with having their content removed are free to find some other format that will accept their posts.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:08 pm

Question: are school children going to be tested for the corona virus? every day?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Hb1OVlvNU
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:10 pm

Wear a mask anyway. That might actually help now.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:08 pm

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