Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Thu May 21, 2020 4:05 pm

Well, anyone can Google Folha do Sao Paolo or Jornal do Brasil for news, and see what is said there if Reuters isn't news.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 21, 2020 4:30 pm

fAkE nEwS! 5G! jAiL Lula! Lulagate!

PS, nebulizing peroxide is such an obviously horrible idea, I hope it has only been floated on this forum in jest. Yes, it will destroy the cells that the Covid virus invades. Those are, of course, healthy and necessary cells in your lungs.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 21, 2020 4:53 pm

It's pretty hard to find these days, thanks to the sudden demand among a certain demographic. After I finish tonight's translations, I may just join you for that beer, though. cheers! -toast-
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Thu May 21, 2020 5:23 pm

PS, nebulizing peroxide is such an obviously horrible idea, I hope it has only been floated on this forum in jest. Yes, it will destroy the cells that the Covid virus invades. Those are, of course, healthy and necessary cells in your lungs.


It's actually been considered as a serious option. But, like I said, it should be done by a doctor. Fwiw, I think the solution would be .003% h2o2. (3% diluted 100 times). Now, here's another point. A saline solution also acts as a disinfectant, and is suggested as an alternative (for gargling, etc). Still, check with your personal physician.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby everything on Thu May 21, 2020 5:44 pm

I pointed out the news, but not in jest. If it's a serious option, I'd hope for serious clinical studies, and not just one article by one doctor somewhere.

h2o2 is also produced by the human body and is detected in some drinks such as tea and instant coffee and in urine. it seems to be produced to protect the body.
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/gener ... nce-system
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9300021979

obviously none of that means to ingest, inject, etc
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby roger hao on Thu May 21, 2020 6:02 pm

Covid deaths in Brazil .005% of population

Heart attack deaths last year in Brazil .08% of population

In Bahia -my home state - Covid deaths .0012% ( 164 out of 15.13 million )
Word I have gotten is that Porto Seguro favela has no cases. Approx 140,000 persons.
I know this is same day different country but explain how you
shelter in place in the Favela.

I appreciate the H2O2 advice .

My dear Taoist Chinese Medicine Doctor friend insists on Lishizhen Coronavirus
formula. Seems legit - what do you all think?
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 21, 2020 6:10 pm

everything wrote:I pointed out the news, but not in jest. If it's a serious option, I'd hope for serious clinical studies, and not just one article by one doctor somewhere.

h2o2 is also produced by the human body and is detected in some drinks such as tea and instant coffee and in urine. it seems to be produced to protect the body.
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/gener ... nce-system
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9300021979

obviously none of that means to ingest, inject, etc


Neither of those links say anything about administering hydrogen peroxide, although they do point out that it damages cells.

Dr. Frank S, from your earlier link has pleaded guilty to malpractice in NV. The reason he practices in Nevada is that he previously had his license stripped from him in CA for malpractice. What kind of malpractice? Using fake treatments on seriously ill patients who then died.

This is not a safe or wise course of treatment of prevention. If there is more literature on nebulizing or injecting HP, I'd be interested in reading it.

I have known people who drank it as well as baking soda for cancer prevention. They didn't die or anything, but it seemed unwise. Still, not nearly as unwise as purposefully damaging the DNA and RNA in one's own cells.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby roger hao on Thu May 21, 2020 6:11 pm

Everything - I am with you but same as hydroxychloroquinine -
If you are slipping over the cliff you are going to grab at even a clump of grass.

I am fairly - personally - convinced that ventilators and generally the
protocol that is being used in most all USA hospitals is killing people.
You can choose your execution method -
electric chair
gas chamber
firing squad
ventilator
H2O2 nebulizer

Let's don't forget the horror of an isolated death once
you submit yourself to the system.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 21, 2020 7:12 pm

I totally agree about the ventilators. I would fight hard to stay off one as long as possible. I hear that using other O2 assist machines while laying on one's belly is surprisingly helpful. The problem is, they will usually put you on the ventilator when you are completely out of it. I have told my wife how I feel and to intervene as much as possible. She is staff at the place I would likely end up, so hopefully that helps. She will also be getting an antibody test soon, and we are very interested in the results.

I also agree about the impossibility of SIP in the favelas. But, keep in mind that SIP is only one way to deal with it (other than just letting it run rampant, which I find to be inhumane).

As for your TCM remedy: if you have good experience with your doc, I would say it's worth investigating. I have experienced miraculous results from one particular acupuncturist and so won't ever dismiss such methods out of hand. That said, there are many quacks and poorly trained people out there, too. But, that's obvious.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Thu May 21, 2020 8:23 pm

The problem is, they will usually put you on the ventilator when you are completely out of it.


Well, yes, a high percentage of the people who go on ventilators, and --in NY, at least-- most who are on them for more than a week usually die. However, I don't think most doctors believe that ventilators kill the patients. Like Ian pointed out, the only reason for ventilation is that the patient is almost out of it.

Some things need clarification. Giving someone oxygen is not ventilation. People are put on ventilators when they physically cannot breathe: i.e., the lungs aren't working. At that point, they are put into a medically induced coma so that they can be intubated, and then the ventilator pushes air in and out of the lungs. If you've had an operation that required you to be anesthetized, that's the idea --except in this case, the point is to keep the patient's lungs going until his body can fight off the infection or a treatment is found. I.e., the virus is winning and there's nothing the doctors can do.

That's where the suggestions of hydrochloroquine, etc., really come from. Sure, if someone is on a ventilator, give him hydrochloroquine, nebulized h2o2, and whatever it takes. The ventilator is a last resort, not a treatment. When they put you into a coma, it's looking grim. Oh, and try to intubate someone while they're not under.
Last edited by Steve James on Thu May 21, 2020 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 21, 2020 8:36 pm

People do get ventilated while conscious. My stepfather was on one for months when he had GB. Very unpleasant, to be sure.

Anyway, my point was that I would try and do other forms of oxygen therapy before being drugged and intubated. I have talked to doctors who specifically said that they have changed tactics and are using ventilators less and using these other methods first as the outcomes are better. These are docs in Chicago, but I have seen some interviews by NYC docs who said similar.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Thu May 21, 2020 9:08 pm

intersting
Didn't think it could be done while awake,,,yep must be very unpleasant

The next step prior to being placed on mechanical ventilation is endotracheal intubation.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapir ... d770694756

from reading it seems like a lot of the treatment protocols are
moving away from ventilator use whenever possible.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu May 21, 2020 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 21, 2020 9:13 pm

I should probably walk that back. I imagine my stepdad was out for the intubation (sticking the tube down his trachea hole), but was awake while ventilated for months. The point I think we all get is that you are not going to get a tracheotomy while awake. However, I have seen pics of covid patients on ventilators that just had masks connected to the machines.

edit:

Non-invasive ventilation refers to ventilatory support without tracheal intubation. This can be used as a first step in patients who require some ventilatory support and who are not profoundly hypoxaemic. Ventilation through a nasal or face mask may avoid the need for intubation, especially in exacerbations of chronic obstructive airways disease. Some patients with chronic ventilatory failure rely on long term non-invasive ventilation. It may also have a place during weaning from conventional ventilation. External negative pressure ventilation, historically provided by an “iron lung,” is now provided by a cuirass system.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116024/
Last edited by Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 21, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Michael on Thu May 21, 2020 9:14 pm

It's all too much for me. Ima jest gonna sit down and take my hydrochloroquine and chase it with some beer.

Look, times are tight, lotsa people getting furloughed by corona. I can save you some money on that hydro.

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Maybe you have beer taste on a bleach budget?

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Thu May 21, 2020 9:15 pm

Sure, it can be done, but not long term (iinm). It's certainly true that not all patients who get put on ventilators need to be. A doctor can make that call. Then again, most people who are treated for covid-19 don't go on ventilators anyway. My point was only that ventilators don't kill people; people who are dying are put on ventilators.

If the problem is breathing, for ex., why doesn't just giving oxygen work? Wouldn't that be the choice before ventilation? If oxygen isn't working, what does a doctor do? Hey, I totally agree that being put on a ventilator should be avoided. It's the figuring out what to do instead that's the doctor's problem. I also agree that the more experience doctors have treating patients with the disease, the more likely it is that they will recognize the patients who do not need ventilation. As you pointed out, doctors in hard-hit areas are looking for alternatives.

I don't want to be put on a ventilator for any reason, frankly. Otoh, I'm not going to tell my doctor not to do it if necessary.
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