Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:44 pm

As far as whether Trump is saying the economy is more important than lives or not, it seems quite clear to some of us here, as well as a number of vociferous Republican politicians who are going around talking about it in much more specific terms than the President, that there is an effort to normalize this narrative that the President got rolling.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Michael on Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:18 pm

I've only watched two or three of his covid pressers and haven't heard a lot about it from him, but I have heard about it being debated by others. It's a question of where and how to implement quarantines, how to focus medical resources to the hotspots, and how to mitigate economic harm to actual people, which includes workers of immoral, multinational corps., who might have to receive help so they're workers are not harmed. I'm against bailing any of the Fortune 100 out, just pay their workers salaries directly while bankruptcy sorts things out, but I know bailouts are going to happen.

The trickiest part is that you can not yet make predictions about the virus. China's numbers can't be trusted, but it's likely their overall timeline from outbreak to manageable recovery sheds some light, which is 3-4 months.

How to do the above has to be constantly re-evaluated because of the unpredictability of the virus spread, efficacy of treatment, etc. Most countries' numbers and situations can not be used as predictors in other countries, and in the USA, not even between states.

What Lt. Governor Patrick said is that it is not necessary to shut down the entire US economy in order to protect people over 70, which means you can isolate/protect the most vulnerable and still reduce economic damage, both short-term and long.

Scarcity of PPE and other medical supplies is making everything more difficult and that scarcity mostly exists because of globalization and dependence on China, and the pandemic is also because of globalization and China. So we might learn something important from this since globalization "wisdom" and justification for immoral business practices and becoming reliant on a country that harvests organs from its religious citizens the CCP has murdered has been, "If I don't cut my workers' throats, then someone else will, so we have to give everything to China." Ditto for citizens by politicians.
Last edited by Michael on Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby bailewen on Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:37 pm

Michael wrote:The trickiest part is that you can not yet make predictions about the virus....

Why not? We have a sample size of over 450,000 people over a period of about 4 1/2 months. As data sets go, that's incredibly robust.

China's numbers can't be trusted...


Well they are more accurate than the US numbers at least, there's broad global consensus on that one.

And professionals like Dr. Fauci have been making predictions at least since February. The mast majority have come true. Heck, little old me made several of accurate predictions back in Feb too.

I predicted the stock market would crash as our medical system started go get overwhelmed and travel bans and city shutdowns were put in place - came true.
I predicted the virus would follow the Italian model. --aslo came true.
I predicted we would have more cases than China --we are about 2-3 days away from this being true. China: About 81,000 cases; USA: about 68,000

...but it's likely their overall timeline from outbreak to manageable recovery sheds some light, which is 3-4 months.

Yep. It shows that IF you take draconian measures to limit social contact, limit travel, and basically shutdown the entire economy for a couple months, you can flatten the curve and get this under control relatively quickly. However, we have not taken any of those measures, which is why it was so easy to predict that this will be far worse in the US than it was in China.

Making accurate predictions when you have a pool of data this massive is actually pretty easy. All you have to do is listen to the medical experts that have spent their entire professional careers studying this sort of thing and actually managing past crises of this nature, and assume they know what they re talking about.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:44 pm

Well they are more accurate than the US numbers at least, there's broad global consensus on that one.


Ain't that the sad truth. >:(

And for what???
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby bailewen on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:19 am

Double sad...this pandemic is proving to be extremely good for China.

Outside of the Fox media bubble, China has been generally praised for their handling of the crises while the US has been an international embarrassment. The contrast has been stark. What's more, China is copying US past strategy, enacting what enables to a mini-marshal plan, as they ship masks and doctors around the world. My Facebook and LinkedIn feeds are now sprinkled with incredibly pro-China posts from Italy.

China is now considered one of the safest places to be, virus-wise. Frankly, as a US citizen, it's humiliating.

And fwiw, I finally found that entire interview with Gov Dan Patrick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg1cptQXhBQ

I don't see how it changes anything. There is a little overlap with something I said several pages back, which is that I feel the economic consequences will be more long lasting and severe than the medical consequences. That being said, he has still said pretty clearly that he would rather be dead but have a good economy. That's his freedom to choose. If either of my parents were still alive though, and I had to choose between a good economy or having my parents still alive, it would not even be a debate. And it is not only senior citizens who can die. In California, we recently had our first teenage death from the virus. So, as a new father, I could also look at it as a choice between my stock holdings or the death of my newborn child.

I am deeply disgusted by the utter lack of humanity of a man who would rather see my son die than endure an economic recession.

Truly disgusting.

And yes, I watched the entire revolting 5 minute interview.

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Last edited by bailewen on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:08 am

Outside of the Fox media bubble,


you may mean your media bubble

In California, we recently had our first teenage death from the virus.
So, as a new father, I could also look at it as a choice between my stock holdings or the death of my newborn child.


really? is it true

lets see...

The Lancaster 17-year-old died of septic shock, according to Lancaster Mayor R. Rex Parris. Officials initially had said he died of coronavirus but later said more tests were needed


another news outlet

Boy's death no longer counted among Los Angeles County's coronavirus total


and another one

Los Angeles County backtracks on teen’s possible virus death
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:18 am

Outside of the Fox media bubble, China has been generally praised for their handling of the crises while the US has been an international embarrassment. The contrast has been stark. What's more, China is copying US past strategy, enacting what enables to a mini-marshal plan, as they ship masks and doctors around the world. My Facebook and LinkedIn feeds are now sprinkled with incredibly pro-China posts from Italy.


got it, looks like your not burning any bridges

ya might need to stop watching "fox". looks like they'er renting space in your head

my students from China paint a very different story...of course
now US citizens they'er not going back understanding
why they left.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby bailewen on Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:10 am

I get most of my information from the CDC.

My news diet consists of mostly YouTube, Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, New York Time and Washington Post.

For COVID news, I have been mainly watching wherever Dr Fauci is speaking. Of the mainstream TV news, I think I watch CNN most, but online I do the rounds between MSNBC, BBC, and then just check on Fox only occasionally.

Again, for COVID, I primarily rely on the WHO, the CDC, and Dr. Fauci. I do not turn to news anchors for medical facts. I turn to medical experts.

You are a pseudoskeptic, pretending to be balanced and "waiting for the full story to come out" while people die.

There is no media bubble on this outside of the United States.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby bailewen on Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:13 am

windwalker wrote:got it, looks like your not burning any bridges


Nice try.

When the facts are not on your side, attack the source.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:50 am

Michael wrote:Instead of me arguing against a strawman, I think you should earn your Donald Dollars and watch the whole five minutes ;)

Saying that we can afford to lose people is another thing. And, anyway, to get the economy started he is willing to gamble with citizen's lives. I don't think it's worth it. Nothing personal.

Lt. Gov. Patrick didn't say that.


If you want me to understand his point of view, just explain it. I'm arguing in a straightforward way that the economy should not be considered more important than peoples' lives --at any point in time or history for any reason. Is that confusing? Well, if Patrick agrees with that position, then I agree with him. I have no clue what you believe unless you actually say so.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:39 am

You are a pseudoskeptic, pretending to be balanced and "waiting for the full story to come out" while people die.


Amazing another mind reader.

You left off talking points ect

and the many other things that people say when they disagree with others viewpoints .
only they have the truth, only their sources are the real sources.

I have a viewpoint based on my experience, yes I am waiting for the rest of the data to come in to confirm what I think.
Could be wrong.

You and some others seem to feel only their points are valid.

As to people dying,
worked with death before
very closely, have you?

Tends to color my view point

Taiwan and some other countries reacted earlier because they did not rely on the WHO which because of China downplayed the initial human transferability.

Societally they can react in a little bit more efficient way because of the type of government societies they have.
The same ones criticizing the administration for in action are also the same ones who criticize the administration for action,
When it acted closing off Travel incrementally.

The US response is not as unified as some other countries do the type of government has and how it’s set up.
Each state has its own emergency reaction plan in place which they are supposed to have funded, evaluated in some cases tested . In some cases some states did not fund or facilitate their own emergency action plans, now asking for things that they don’t have.

This also happened at the federal level with the mask, from the last administration in 09, not addressed in the during this administration.

Happens .

Hopefully what is being put in place now being tested ,
will be used by succeeding administrations

Any system can be overwhelmed.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby grzegorz on Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:51 am

For no one in particular...

grzegorz wrote:Image


And there goes the US economy.

Tired of all this winning yet?
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:16 am

Thing is, the only reason it's about Trump is because he's made it about himself. The first comments he offered about the media coverage of the virus was that they were only out to make him look bad, that it was "fake news," a "Democratic hoax," another attempt to impeach him. So, since it was made up, we'd only have a few cases and it'd go away.

The only reasons he's relevant now are the decisions he makes now. And, currently, the virus is making the rules. If the experts agree that people can start congregating together again at some point, the point the determine should be used. No matter how it makes him look. I mean, he's so vain, he thinks the virus is about him.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby grzegorz on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:23 am

By the way a 30 year got it in New York and died.

Spin that Trumpsters!
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new thread on covid-19 updates in your location

Postby Trick on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:27 am

all this about the economy, isnt the whole economy thing a giant bubble that anyway would soon burst in a huge kaaboom! ? now everyone will have their backs free and the blame goes to the virus ?
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