Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby bailewen on Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:58 pm

wiesiek wrote:btw, I would ask - why vacciners are so angry about anti -vacciners?
If you take the vaccine you should be protected, antivacciner -not. It is his (anty) choise.
He isn`t a treat for vacciners, they are protected, aren`t they?


Anti-vaxers threaten herd immunity.

Some people, for instance, my own mother last year, on chemo, cannot take the vaccine. If you refuse the vaccine, you could kill her.

A cool million expected to die by May
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:20 pm

Anti-vaxers threaten herd immunity.


This.

It is really amazing how self-centered some of these anti-vaxxers are. They look at things only as a personal risk analysis without any regard for those around them.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:42 pm

I like this guy. Here he explains some myths about the vaccine and how they work. Maybe the anti-vaxers just need the right info from the right sources? Could help a bit.

https://youtu.be/rRYZxJ13qwY
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby wiesiek on Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:04 am

so,
Guys;
are you supposing, that after vaccination you aren`t able to carry and spread viruses?

my position is quite simple - I didn`t use any of anti flu vaccine, and never had a flu, I don
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby wiesiek on Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:17 am

so, I don`t see any reason to vaccinate against another variation.

Let`s say ,that my immune systems response is similar to the response of system after vaccine, ie
I recognize part of the viruses "crown" as a danger , and my immune system answers accordingly .
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:20 am

The hope is that the vaccine prepares the body well enough for the pathogen that it never builds up enough of a viral load to become transmissible.

It's a hope, but a well reasoned one backed by science. Just a matter of seeing if the virus agrees or not.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby everything on Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:59 am

well again, the motivation is not mainly about each individual as an isolated case, and whether that individual feels a need. it's about public health. people's grandparents, the hospital systems getting overloaded (affecting people with other needs), etc.

374k deaths in USA, nearly 2 million deaths worldwide ... so far. Still rising quickly.

This isn't like a decision like "I won't wear a seatbelt" or "I won't wear a helmet" or even "I'll drive or text and drive" (which can easily kill others). The stakes are far more drastic than that because the natural growth curve is exponential. It doesn't seem like a lot of people are able to understand.

On this tangent, here's a good explanation of "exponential growth" and why people don't seem to intuitively grasp it. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2020 ... d-covid-19
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:49 pm

everything wrote:This isn't like a decision like "I won't wear a seatbelt" or "I won't wear a helmet" or even "I'll drive or text and drive" (which can easily kill others). The stakes are far more drastic than that because the natural growth curve is exponential. It doesn't seem like a lot of people are able to understand.


Good analogy. And this is not like regular traffic either, now we are on race track or on the Autobahn and there are many people in each car. One person that is selfish or don't care about safety can do a lot of harm for many people.

I still have a few small concerns, but even if the safety belts are new and look different than what we are used to, this is the best we have right now.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:42 pm

Meh. Math was mentioned months ago and scoffed at. It was suggested that 1K deaths per day would add up to a terrible toll if it continued. Oh well, the argument was that the disease wasn't that serious. Cool. It's just a flu we can't control yet. But, in the meantime, today they say the average death rate is above 3K --and not decreasing.

Hey, don't panic. Don't take the vaccine when offered, and let someone who wants it get it. Did you hear that this pharmacist in NY decided to sabotage some vaccine. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wisconsin-pharmacist-fired-over-spoiled-vaccine-doses-is-an-admitted-conspiracy-theorist-01609800140

Anyway, what a vaccine will do is allow everyone to get back into circulation with much less likelihood of any given person causing the virus to spread to many other people. People who don't take the vaccine are irrelevant because they're simply not helping. Otoh, it's impossible for everyone who wants the vaccine to get it at this point. People are making appointments for March. So, it ain't brave or meaningful to refuse the vaccine. No need to get mad at 'em.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby everything on Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:23 pm

ah yeah the racing analogy is better. it's hard to explain the growth part, but that race track would have to affect every other race track and road in the world, and at an increasing rate.

I get some people want to be "Early adopters" and some will be "laggards".
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:18 pm

No need to get mad at 'em.


Scolding people pushing an antivax message is not the same as getting mad at someone for not getting the shots. Although, I would be mad at my parents if they didn't get it.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:22 pm

My point was that it wasn't worth the personal energy. If everyone could get the vaccine, and many people refused, just get the vaccine.:) Too many people will complain, but take the vaccine anyway. Take Marco Rubio for instance.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:18 pm

Fair points. It's also heartening that the number of Americans who say they will refuse the vaccine is rapidly shrinking.

My wife just got her second shot on Friday. Sore arm from the first and some minor body aches from the second. Just about what you should expect and probably even hope for.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby wiesiek on Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:29 am

I would like to make my point clear, I`m not flatearthlin;
so
I`m not against vaccine in general,
problem is - patients evaluation.
Vaccine is able to strengthen immune system of the healthy individual, but in the case of hidden malfunction - cons. bits the pros.


(covid)-`cause I`m not the doc, or biologist, I follow advice of the guys from my local bio-tech center and my grey matter...

from another can of meat:
in the 1963 , during one month in Poland over 1 million took vaccine.
Today just very small % of it.
Interesting.
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