Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Franklin on Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:45 am

another report highlighting data that they asked for in china and were not given access to...







re- CCP continued claims of victim hood on the world stage...
this is actually a very good example of a very smart strategy of theirs
to use the tenets and social norms of the west to defeat the west...
and the protections of international legal, political, business, (etc) processes
while they themselves do not adhere to them (either domestically or on the world stage)

i highly doubt that the CCP is actually interested in equal treatment...
if you just casually glance - not even dig in
you will find a huge difference in influence and access to:
political, media, financial, business, education, etc sectors....
the CCP has much more access and influence then they allow others to have...

are they really interested in equal treatment...
again -- because why are some countries allowed things that others aren't...

for instance the equal treatment in investigating the origin of the coronavirus...
the WHO must investigate a lab in the US
will they be satisfied is the probe is delayed 13 months, headed by someone with decades of history working at the lab and friendship with the lab being investigated, the investigative team only spends a few hours at the lab, and are not equipped for or conducting any sort of forensic audit on the lab...

is it really equal treatment....

for instance.. is this now going to be the new precedence?
there was just a new Ebola outbreak in west Africa several days ago...
the country has deep ties with china and is a major participant in the belt and road initiative...
will the WHO now be called on to probe labs in China that held/hold Ebola samples -- and have safety concerns
I believe many labs in china would fit that bill....
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:14 pm

Franklin wrote:for instance the equal treatment in investigating the origin of the coronavirus...
the WHO must investigate a lab in the US
will they be satisfied is the probe is delayed 13 months, headed by someone with decades of history working at the lab and friendship with the lab being investigated, the investigative team only spends a few hours at the lab, and are not equipped for or conducting any sort of forensic audit on the lab...


This is a pretty good point. Well, if the WHO is somewhat satisfied by a brief visit, I guess China would have no other choice than to accept the outcome.


will the WHO now be called on to probe labs in China that held/hold Ebola samples -- and have safety concerns
I believe many labs in china would fit that bill....


There are Ebola samples in labs all over the world. Some might have safety concerns. Shouldn’t WHO check every lab in the whole world? No?. I am far, far more worried About secretive labs in the US than in China. There’s nothing strange about concerns over lab safety in the USA, or concerns about if it the Covid virus leaked from a lab there. 230 safety incidents reported in just one year, well, that’s a lot.

Laboratories reported more than 230 safety incidents with bioterror viruses and bacteria last year, hundreds of workers were monitored for potential exposures and a handful of labs had their permits suspended because of violations that raised “significant concerns for imminent danger,” according to a report released Thursday by federal lab regulators in response to a White House call for greater public transparency.

Background checks by the FBI stopped 16 individuals that posed security risks – including six convicted felons, two fugitives and a person found to be a “mental defective” -- from working in labs where they’d have access to pathogens such as those that cause anthrax, Ebola, plague and botulism, the report said.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2016 ... /86577070/
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:07 pm

for instance the equal treatment in investigating the origin of the coronavirus...
the WHO must investigate a lab in the US


And, which lab would that be? Who decides which one? Does the WHO seek to investigate a particular lab? And, how could they tell if the virus escaped from there?

I have no conspiracy theories about the virus at all. I think the debate about possible origins became political and not epidemiological. If one starts with the premise there are demons, the only thing left is to find one.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:13 pm

Steve James wrote:
for instance the equal treatment in investigating the origin of the coronavirus...
the WHO must investigate a lab in the US


And, which lab would that be? Who decides which one? Does the WHO seek to investigate a particular lab? And, how could they tell if the virus escaped from there?.


Fort Detrick in Maryland. They received bat samples from Wuhan brought there by the “batwoman” in early 2019.

https://wjla.com/news/local/cdc-shut-do ... h-concerns

Army germ lab shut down by CDC in 2019 had several 'serious' protocol violations that year

OBSERVATION 1

Severity level: Serious

The CDC reported that an individual partially entered a room multiple times without the required respiratory protection while other people in that room were performing procedures with a non-human primate on a necropsy table.

“This deviation from entity procedures resulted in a respiratory occupational exposure to select agent aerosols,” the CDC wrote.

OBSERVATION 2

Severity level: Serious

The CDC reported that the lab did not ensure that employee training was properly verified when it came to toxins and select agents.

“These failures were recognized through video review of laboratorians’ working in BSL3 and ABSL3 labs,” their report said. “[These] indicate the [lab]’s means used to verify personnel understood the training had not been effective, leading to increased risk of occupational exposures.”

The CDC went on to specify that a laboratorian who was not wearing appropriate respiratory protection was seen multiple times “partially entering” a room where non-human primates that were infected with [redacted] were “housed in open caging.” They also observed a laboratorian disposing of waste in a biohazardous waste bin without gloves on.

OBSERVATION 3

Severity level: Moderate

In this violation observation, the CDC went into more detail on the incident of the worker not wearing gloves while disposing of biohazardous waste, writing that “biosafety and containment procedures must be sufficient to contain the select agent or toxin.”

The corrective action they recommended was to confirm that relevant personnel have been trained to wear gloves to prevent exposure to hazardous materials.

OBSERVATION 4

Severity level: Serious

In this observation, the CDC notes that the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases had “systematically failed to ensure implementation of biosafety and containment procedures commensurate with the risks associated with working with select agents and toxins.”

The violation specifically observed involved “entity personnel [...] propping open” a door while removing “large amounts of biohazardous waste” from an adjacent room, “[increasing] the risk of contaminated air from [the room] escaping and being drawn into the [redacted]” where the people working “typically do not wear respiratory protection.”

OBSERVATION 5

Severity level: Moderate

The CDC reported that the laboratory failed to safeguard against unauthorized access to select against. They wrote that personal protective equipment worn while decontaminating something contaminated by a select agent had been stored in open biohazard bags, in an area of the facility that the CDC has redacted for security reasons.

“By storing regulated waste in this area, the entity did not limit access to those with access approval,” they wrote.

OBSERVATION 6

Severity level: Moderate

The CDC reports that someone at the lab did not maintain an accurate or current inventory for a toxin.



https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1182694.shtml

US urged to explain military lab shutdown

Netizens and experts are calling for the US government to release information on the suspension of an infectious disease research lab under the US Army, as a petition on the White House website listed coincident events between the closure and the outbreak of COVID-19, urging the US government to clarify whether the lab was related to the deadly virus.

While the origin of the novel coronavirus is still unknown and conspiracy theories have caused widespread panic, experts said that timely information disclosure to the public would benefit global unity and cooperation against the pandemic, which had infected more than 150,000 people and killed 5,400 around the world as of Saturday.

The Fort Detrick laboratory that handles high-level disease-causing material, such as Ebola, in Fredrick, Maryland was shut after the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a cease and desist order to the organization in July, 2019 according to local media.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:26 pm

Has the WHO asked to investigate the Ft. Detrick lab? The reported violations were noted by the US CDC.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:35 pm

Steve James wrote:Has the WHO asked to investigate the Ft. Detrick lab? The reported violations were noted by the US CDC.


I don’t think so. It’s the Chinese who want WHO to make an investigation.

But hey, can you blame them? The security in American labs is a joke. Here’s some fun reading about the last two decades:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/scie ... Position=5

Lab workers at different sites accidentally jabbed themselves with needles contaminated by anthrax or West Nile virus. An air-cleaning system meant to filter dangerous microbes out of a lab failed, but no one knew because the alarms had been turned off. A batch of West Nile virus, improperly packed in dry ice, burst open at a Federal Express shipping center. Mice infected with bubonic plague or Q fever went missing. And workers exposed to Q fever, brucellosis or tuberculosis did not realize it until they either became ill or blood tests detected the exposure.

The good news is that relatively few lab workers have become ill from accidental exposures: only 11 from 2004 to 2010, according to the C.D.C. report. None died, and none infected other people.

Richard H. Ebright, a molecular biologist and laboratory director from Rutgers University, said he had “no confidence” in the safety of the many labs that have sprung up since 2001. He suggested there was a culture of complacency at some of them, as well as hubris among some researchers who believe they do not need oversight or management.

The most recent revelations have underscored potentially serious lapses at the government’s premier institutions. In June, dozens of C.D.C. employees may have been exposed to live anthrax. In another case disclosed this month, a C.D.C. lab accidentally contaminated a relatively benign flu sample with a dangerous H5N1 bird flu strain that has killed 386 people since 2003 — and then shipped it to a lab at the Department of Agriculture. In yet another episode this month, vials of smallpox and other infectious agents were discovered in a government laboratory on the campus of the National Institutes of Health after being stored and apparently forgotten about 50 years ago.

... and so on ...

....
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:15 pm

I don’t think so. It’s the Chinese who want WHO to make an investigation.


So, it's political. Anyway, if China controlled the WHO, there'd be a demand for an investigation --if there were specific evidence that covid escaped from that lab. Besides, if the WHO said there were no connection, who'd believe them?
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Daniel-san on Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:48 pm



Covid is a biological weapon. Who did it?
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Franklin on Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:45 am

some more "discrepancies" between what the lead "investigator" Peter Daszak has said and public record...


https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4130431



WHO inspector's denial of bats in Wuhan lab contradicted by facts

Researchers have uncovered accounts from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) scientists and applications for patents for bat breeding that refute World Health Organization (WHO) inspector Peter Daszak's claims that the lab does not house live bats captured in the wild.

An international network of researchers and scientists investigating the origins of the coronavirus pandemic who call themselves DRASTIC (Decentralized Radical Autonomous Search Team Investigating COVID-19) have found evidence from Chinese media reports that in fact the WIV scientists captured bats alive and kept them inside the lab. The lab has also filed two patents for cages to be used in bat breeding and one for lab accidents just before the start of the pandemic.

British zoologist and the president of EcoHealth Alliance Peter Daszak is the only individual to be part of both the WHO and The Lancet teams investigating the origins of the Wuhan coronavirus pandemic. However, he has long-term professional and financial ties with the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) spanning two decades and valued in the millions of dollars, which represents a conflict of interest.

On Dec. 10 of last year, the Independent published an article alleging that the US National Institutes of Health provided US$3.7 million in funding to the WIV to study bats carrying viruses similar to SARS in Yunnan Province. The article reported that WIV scientists captured the bats and sent them to the Wuhan lab for analysis.

That same day, Daszak took umbrage with the claim that the bats had been captured and transported to the WIV and posted a tweet in which he wrote "No BATS were 'sent to Wuhan lab for genetic analyses of viruses collected in the field.'" He then added, "That's not how science works. We collect bat samples, send them to the lab. We RELEASE bats where we catch them!"

Daszak then deleted the tweet and its accompanying thread. However, its contents can still be seen on the Internet Archive.

Later that same day, Daszak added one final tweet that remains to this day, in which he admitted to being "the lead" on work with bats carrying coronaviruses at the WIV and that he has worked with the organization for 15 years. He then claimed that the labs at the WIV "DO NOT have live or dead bats in them. There is no evidence anywhere that this happened."

However, the team at DRASTIC uncovered a comment made by the director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases at WIV, Shi Zhengli (石正麗) — also known as "Bat Woman" — as claiming that "we experimented on live bats with Nipah." The Nipah virus is a highly infectious disease carried by bats that can easily be transmitted to other animals and humans and have a high mortality rate.

On page 12 of a document titled "Second China-U.S. Workshop on the Challenges of Emerging Infections, Laboratory Safety and Global Health Security," which took place from May 17-19, 2017, in Wuhan, Shi is cited as saying that some SARS Like coronaviruses (SL CoVs) have the potential for interspecies transmission to other animals and humans.

When asked by an audience member if a bat could be cleared of this virus, Shi responded that she had tried this with Nipah virus in bats and the bats could produce antibodies and be clear within seven days.

She said that in nature, they found that bats produce antibodies to some viruses but not all and that some SL CoV can exist in bats for several months. The fact that specific bats were being monitored for days and even months for the presence of antibodies indicates that they were being kept in the lab.

In an article posted on Sixth Tone in May of 2018, the news site interviewed WIV scientist Luo Dongsheng, who is part of a working group at the lab that sequences coronaviruses and enters the data into a genetic database. Luo describes the process of exploring Taiyi Cave in Xianning, Hubei Province, and collecting horseshoe bat samples and the bats themselves.

At the end of the article, it states by 8:30 p.m. on an evening that spring, Luo's team had "collected a full rack of swabs and bagged a dozen live bats for further testing back at the lab."

In an archived article from ScienceNet.cn which has since been scrubbed from the internet, WIV scientist Zhang Huajun praised Shi for helping to feed the bats while the interns were out for the Lunar New Year holiday:

"The research team captured a few bats from the wild to be used as experimental animals. They need to be fed every day. This Spring Festival, the students went home for a holiday, and Teacher Shi took on the task of raising bats."

In an archived view of the WIV introduction page, it states that the institute had "3 sets of barrier facilities" covering 1,216 square meters. It then itemized the cages it houses for various types of lab animals, including "126 cages for Japanese white rabbits, 340 cages for SD and Wistar rats, 3268 cages for inbred strains, closed groups, mutant strains and genetically engineered mice, 12 cages for ferrets, 12 cages for bats, 2 species of cotton bollworm and beet armyworm, totaling 52 strains."

In addition, the WIV has filed at least two patents that appear to point to a bat breeding program in the lab. The first patent was filed in June of 2018 and was called "A kind of carnivorism bat rearing cage." The patent was granted in April of 2019.

The description of the cage includes partitions, feed openings, and drinking tubes. The description concludes that the device is intended to enable the bats to be "capable of healthy growth and breeding" under artificial conditions.

The second patent describes an artificial breeding insectivorous bats method of feeding the bats with predatory insects, ensuring their safe "overwintering," and ensuring a "high breeding rate and survival rate." A third patent, filed in November of 2019, just one month before the first COVID-19 cases in Wuhan were announced, is an instrument designed to quickly stop the bleeding on a finger if it had been injured while working pathogenic viruses in a biosafety lab.

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Steve James on Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:48 am

Ok, the conclusion of this video is that it's propaganda. I'm not promoting CNN, the US, or the WHO. I really hadn't heard the claim of a US origin for the virus. However, the fact that the WHO is not requesting an investigation of the Ft. Detrick facility (and the other 200 biological labs) leads me to believe that the claim is more propaganda than science. I.e., I don't believe China. But, it's not because I have a prejudice against that country or because I believe the US is the good guy. I trust the WHO more because the US and China don't trust each other or them. That said, if the WHO asked for a tour, I'd be all for it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czIPfTJkwWw
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:08 am

Franklin wrote:some more "discrepancies" between what the lead "investigator" Peter Daszak has said and public record...

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4130431

WHO inspector's denial of bats in Wuhan lab contradicted by facts


Have no idea why the speculations here would be of any interest. No one believe that the Virus has spread from live bats, except from maybe the Taiwanese as implied here. The samples from the cages in Yunnan that are said to have virus closest to the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 were collected from feces, not from live bats.

Steve James wrote:Ok, the conclusion of this video is that it's propaganda. I'm not promoting CNN, the US, or the WHO. I really hadn't heard the claim of a US origin for the virus. However, the fact that the WHO is not requesting an investigation of the Ft. Detrick facility (and the other 200 biological labs) leads me to believe that the claim is more propaganda than science. I.e., I don't believe China.


It's not really propaganda only. There are proofs that Fort Diedrick had collaborations with the Wuhan institute. There are also proofs that the people were infected in Italy, France, Spain end even Wales in early 2019. These evidents does not come from China, but from the countries mentioned. Also, the mutation found in Wuhan is a later mutation than what is found than in the USA and in Europe. These are all facts, not lies or theories. Facts.

Some people believe that it must come from Fort Diedrick rather than Wuhan because that theres is a HIV genome in SARS-Cov-2 and Fort Diedrick has HIV research. However, that a HIV genome is prevalent in the SARS2 virus is wrong.

I believe that China puts a lot of effort giving the USA attention mostly because there are no proofs that the first virus outbreak happened in China. And in fact there are proofs that says the opposite, but this is not something that the USA or the Media in the West acknowledges. The propaganda is solely from the West and they only put focus on China.

And hey, the USA lies about China all of the time, why shouldn't China lie about the USA. After all, it was the USA that started the propaganda war, not China.

But, it's not because I have a prejudice against that country or because I believe the US is the good guy. I trust the WHO more because the US and China don't trust each other or them. That said, if the WHO asked for a tour, I'd be all for it.


Good. Then you don't believe in any lab leakage as WHO has ruled that out. I am not convinced myself that it wasn't a leak or mistake. But according to facts and logic, I would rather suspect that if there was any mistake where a lab was involved, it would have happened in another country than in China.

But it's logical that the WHO don't address the USA for the moment. They need to start somewhere, but I am sure that they will investigate other leads as well if they see it as necessary.

How everyone can be so convinced that China is to blame when there are facts that contradicts this theory I don't really understand. It's like everyone already have made up their mind and just want to confirm their own ideas.

I myself, believe it or not, have no strict opinion. There are so many viruses all around us that are mutating all of the time. Pandemics just happens from time to time. Why is there always the need to point a finger? :-\
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Trick on Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:00 pm

Yes it’s a big possibility that the US is the ground zero from where the covid19 spread globally -a quote from an respected physician from Taiwan province-
. The Taiwanese physician noted that in August of 2019 the US had a flurry of lung pneumonias or similar, which the Americans blamed on ‘vaping’ from e-cigarettes, but which, according to the scientist, the symptoms and conditions could not be explained by e-cigarettes. He said he wrote to the US officials telling them he suspected those deaths were likely due to the coronavirus. He claims his warnings were ignored.
and of course the very likely chain of the virus spread to China . FortDiedrick - US army personnel - world military games in Wuhan..https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... er-228109/

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/ch ... r-BB118iKH
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Franklin on Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:51 pm

Trick wrote:Yes it’s a big possibility that the US is the ground zero from where the covid19 spread globally -a quote from an respected physician from Taiwan province-
. The Taiwanese physician noted that in August of 2019 the US had a flurry of lung pneumonias or similar, which the Americans blamed on ‘vaping’ from e-cigarettes, but which, according to the scientist, the symptoms and conditions could not be explained by e-cigarettes. He said he wrote to the US officials telling them he suspected those deaths were likely due to the coronavirus. He claims his warnings were ignored.
and of course the very likely chain of the virus spread to China . FortDiedrick - US army personnel - world military games in Wuhan..https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... er-228109/

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/ch ... r-BB118iKH



again --
no such thing as the Taiwan Province...


re- the "Quote" -
was from an article by the highly respected Centre for Research on Globalization ("COVID-19: Further Evidence that the Virus Originated in the US") that has since been deleted
https://www.globalresearch.ca/

they have a lot of other very interesting articles...
:o ;D


The Centre for Research on Globalization has also said that the pandemic is not real...
lol

"The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) has been accused of spreading Chinese propaganda.[31][32] An article on Global Research making the false assertion that the Coronavirus pandemic was not real was carried by 70 other outlets, according to the August 2020 State department report.[16] Chossudovsky himself has described it as being a "manufactured pandemic".[9] Earlier in 2020, his list of 10 questions was tweeted by the foreign minister of Iran. They included the claim that the United States government was responsible for the international coronavirus pandemic.[33] Global Research published an article entitled "COVID-19: Further Evidence that the Virus Originated in the US" was posted on social media by a senior official in the Chinese foreign ministry.[32][34][35] Chinese state media have reported such unfounded speculation which has been carried by Chossudovsky's website with, according to The Globe and Mail, misattributed sources.[35] Reportedly, the two articles on this theme have since been removed from the globalresearch.ca website.[36]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:03 pm

So, what is this about? Is the claim being made that China created the virus in a lab and then either purposefully or accidentally released it?

Highly unlikely, and probably best to apply Occam's razor.

If you keep up with either virology (I don't really) or the Anthropocene (I do), you'd know that there has been a massive increase in mammal to mammal novel virus spread as well as animal to human novel virus spread due to both a crowding of the planet and afforestation both of which lead to increased interspecies contact.

I'm not saying it's impossible that it came from a lab, but it just doesn't seem likely.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Franklin on Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:07 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:So, what is this about? Is the claim being made that China created the virus in a lab and then either purposefully or accidentally released it?

Highly unlikely, and probably best to apply Occam's razor.

If you keep up with either virology (I don't really) or the Anthropocene (I do), you'd know that there has been a massive increase in mammal to mammal novel virus spread as well as animal to human novel virus spread due to both a crowding of the planet and afforestation both of which lead to increased interspecies contact.

I'm not saying it's impossible that it came from a lab, but it just doesn't seem likely.




I have not been making any claims about the origin
I have no idea....

i honestly don't think we will ever know for sure..

just pointing out that the credibility of the "investigation" is severely lacking...
with points such as-
the lead investigator - is heavily tied to the WIV - in both years and $$$
they only spent several hours at the lab
were not equipped for nor did they carry out any sort of forensic audit..
some statements from the lead investigator - are easily shown to be false
statements such as the investigative team received everything they asked for and were completely satisfied- are also contradicted by other team members themselves...
such as data from the first cases was not received in the raw state -
as well as the samples and sequencing from those first cases were also destroyed (disposed of)
water samples asked for could not be given because they were no longer available
blood samples could not be given for legal reasons..
(funny though that water and blood samples are "proof" that the virus might have originated in spain or italy)
they investigated the supposed outbreak site- which had already been sanitized over 1 year ago and could not find any trace of the virus there..
half of the first cases (or something along those lines) had no contact/connection with the supposed outbreak site..
etc, etc, etc

the credibility keeps piling up...



and just to bring up another thing that most people probably forgot...
there was that time- when the batwoman-
freaked out - made some public statements like - OMG did this leak out of our lab
rushed back to the lab... to check things out...
and then made an official statement a week later (or about a week later)
that we are 100% confident that it wasn't us...

not saying it was a lab leak
but if a lab leak was so out of the question and far fetched
why would she have a panic attack and rush back to the lab to check...

edit-
just pointing out some inconsistencies...

and not even bringing up stuff like this
which is just an example of things like this that have been continually pointed out for the duration of this whole thing
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... n-lab.html
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