Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

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Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby everything on Thu May 21, 2020 2:54 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -hong-kong

China plans to push through sweeping national security laws for Hong Kong at its annual meeting of parliament, in a move that critics say will effectively end the territory’s autonomy.

Beijing has been making it clear it wants new security legislation passed since huge pro-democracy protests last year plunged Hong Kong into its deepest turmoil since it returned to Chinese rule in 1997.

“National security is the bedrock underpinning the stability of the country,” said Zhang Yesui, spokesman for the National People’s Congress (NPC), the annual meeting of parliament that kicks off its full session on Friday.

Zhang announced that delegates at the NPC – a largely rubber-stamping exercise – would “establish and improve a legal framework and mechanism for safeguarding national security” in Hong Kong.

Condemnation of the proposal was swift, amid fears it could erase the “one country, two systems” framework that is supposed to grant the territory a high degree of autonomy.

“This is the end of Hong Kong,” said the pro-democracy Honk Kong legislator Dennis Kwok. “Beijing, the Central People’s Government, has completely breached its promise to the Hong Kong people ... They are completely walking back on their obligation.”

Article 23 of Hong Kong’s mini-constitution, the Basic Law, says the city must enact national security laws to prohibit “treason, secession, sedition [and] subversion” against the Chinese government.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Thu May 21, 2020 5:03 pm

everything wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/21/china-proposes-controversial-national-security-law-for-hong-kong

China plans to push through sweeping national security laws for Hong Kong at its annual meeting of parliament, in a move that critics say will effectively end the territory’s autonomy.

Beijing has been making it clear it wants new security legislation passed since huge pro-democracy protests last year plunged Hong Kong into its deepest turmoil since it returned to Chinese rule in 1997.

“National security is the bedrock underpinning the stability of the country,” said Zhang Yesui, spokesman for the National People’s Congress (NPC), the annual meeting of parliament that kicks off its full session on Friday.

Zhang announced that delegates at the NPC – a largely rubber-stamping exercise – would “establish and improve a legal framework and mechanism for safeguarding national security” in Hong Kong.

Condemnation of the proposal was swift, amid fears it could erase the “one country, two systems” framework that is supposed to grant the territory a high degree of autonomy.

“This is the end of Hong Kong,” said the pro-democracy Honk Kong legislator Dennis Kwok. “Beijing, the Central People’s Government, has completely breached its promise to the Hong Kong people ... They are completely walking back on their obligation.”

Article 23 of Hong Kong’s mini-constitution, the Basic Law, says the city must enact national security laws to prohibit “treason, secession, sedition [and] subversion” against the Chinese government.



Interesting just had a discussion about this with one of my students, from China,

HK was on a time line, regardless...
Whats happening if it does, is what would or will happen anyway....

There is no scenario in which it would not, or could not happen...
Last edited by windwalker on Thu May 21, 2020 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Michael on Thu May 21, 2020 9:16 pm

There is no scenario in which it would not, or could not happen...


It was inevitable. But you know, what's next? Taiwan? Senkaku?
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Thu May 21, 2020 11:25 pm

HK was on a lease
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Bao on Fri May 22, 2020 12:46 am

It’s not about HK only. This is more one part only of a strategy to keep the US on better distance. The US, stirring up conflicts by things as fueling the umbrella movement with funds, has more or less pressured the mainland to tighten up the grip and made it illegal to accept money from other countries with the only purpose to disrupt the order. Much of what they have been doing lately is to keep the US away from interfering and disrupting. The government has taken control again over many industries just because the US were using companies for their own benefit and amongst other things tried to buy up important resources. The whole economic war started when China refused to take more trash and waste from the US. It’s all about control and money. The USA has decided that China should produce things for them to low cost and take their trash. Now the US is behaving like an angry little three year old child because China has started to say no. If the U.S. learned to keep the hands away, the whole world would be happier, even HK.
Last edited by Bao on Fri May 22, 2020 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Fri May 22, 2020 5:45 am

Yes the US with its CIA have lately been working hard to cause China to wobble. Stirring up mobs in HK, indoctrinate youth in Xinjiang and have them turned to terrorists(not only working for their cause in China but elsewhere too).
Non of it has really worked for them, just a matter of time till they go into biological “warfare” agains China, which probably will backfire on themselves.
All their tactics seem to be quite useless, even their trump-card DalaiLama turned out to be a joke trough out the decades 8-)
They are trying to close in on China from all directions except from north(the evil Russians are in the way there)....well, Trump tried to win Kim over, but most certainly will not happen....fail again.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Fri May 22, 2020 5:46 am

Yes the US with its CIA have lately been working hard to cause China to wobble. Stirring up mobs in HK, indoctrinate youth in Xinjiang and have them turned to terrorists(not only working for their cause in China but elsewhere too).
Non of it has really worked for them, just a matter of time till they go into biological “warfare” agains China, which probably will backfire on themselves.
All their tactics seem to be quite useless, even their trump-card DalaiLama turned out to be a joke trough out the decades 8-)
They are trying to close in on China from all directions except from north(the evil Russians are in the way there)....well, Trump tried to win Kim over, but most certainly will not happen....fail again.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby .Q. on Sat May 23, 2020 4:42 am

Xi has been accelerating towards Cultural Revolution 2.0 regardless of any outside influence.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Sat May 23, 2020 6:08 am

.Q. wrote:Xi has been accelerating towards Cultural Revolution 2.0 regardless of any outside influence.


Something my student also mentioned in talking about it.
HK was going to be transitioning to the one system regardless
The time frame has been speeded up a little bit by its own actions.

The agreement was for 50 years.
Now some 23 yrs later what did they think would happen after
its full span of time.

Some have asked about Taiwan, comparing a self-sufficient country to a city
that was never free on its own regardless which country ruled it.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Bao on Sat May 23, 2020 8:35 am

.Q. wrote:Xi has been accelerating towards Cultural Revolution 2.0 regardless of any outside influence.


That comment was something I didn't quite understand. I haven't seen anything pointing towards this. He is trying to return China to Socialism after Deng Xiaoping and Yang Zemin made capitalism rule. Xi is making it easier for people to get health care, for children in poor areas to attend better schools etc. I haven't seen any attack on culture or history. Nationalism and hatred towards the US is accelerating though, so it's more like the opposite. They try to emphasise Chinese history and culture and get rid of too much Western influence.
Last edited by Bao on Sat May 23, 2020 8:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby .Q. on Sat May 23, 2020 3:06 pm

Bao wrote:
.Q. wrote:Xi has been accelerating towards Cultural Revolution 2.0 regardless of any outside influence.


That comment was something I didn't quite understand. I haven't seen anything pointing towards this. He is trying to return China to Socialism after Deng Xiaoping and Yang Zemin made capitalism rule. Xi is making it easier for people to get health care, for children in poor areas to attend better schools etc. I haven't seen any attack on culture or history. Nationalism and hatred towards the US is accelerating though, so it's more like the opposite. They try to emphasise Chinese history and culture and get rid of too much Western influence.


The fact Xi removed his term limit should be all the sign anyone needs to see he's a dictator. He does not give a shit about making people's lives better. They're still actively suppressing people's complaints about the government. The fact Winnie the Pooh and Animal Crossing are banned shows you the level of censorship.

Destroying Buddhist statutes


Lei Lei (yes, the Tai Chi master beat up by Xu Xiaodong) inciting violence against Fang Fang (Author of Wuhan Diary). Note that he's only 1 of many calling for her punishment.


China's official music video promoting their virus hospitals. I think that's clear enough they're back to the Cultural Revolution. They're ready to learn from North Korea. BTW: This is not a joke. They broadcasted on their national TV multiple times.


Chinese guy describing his wife's C-section anesthesiologist purposely not giving her enough anesthetics due to him not giving red envelope.


Taiwan businessmen that opened hospitals in China describing medical system there. It's funny how the group that setup the f*d up hospitals at least try not to f* w/ their neighbors.


There are million worse things you can find showing what they're doing. I heard a voice recording of a parent complaining that the kindergarten teachers are teaching the kids to love the Chinese Communist Party over their parents, just like during the CR.
Someone mentioned years back when China still published their budget spending, the entry for 維穩 (maintaining stability) exceeded their entire military budget. These would include the infamous Wumao. That's why you see crazy amount of propaganda there.
I'm sure US is also using propaganda and whatnot, but you can't compare the level that's used between a democratic country that allows free speech vs one that does not. There's no comparison.

What's funny is I recently found out that according to rule 35 of Chinese (宪法), which I assume is their version of constitution, they are guaranteed freedom of speech, publishing, gathering, organization, marching.
中华人民共和国宪法
第三十五条 中华人民共和国公民有言论、出版、集会、结社、游行、示威的自由

Honestly I barely paid attention to politics before, but since I've been stuck at home I started looking at random stuff and what I found honestly surprised me. I've heard of bad things regarding CCP since I have relatives that had worked in China but some seem pretty far fetched. Now I realize it's my imagination that has been too limited. I'm not even listing the worst things I've found here since it's depressing to watch such inhumane treatment.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Peacedog on Sat May 23, 2020 3:21 pm

Yeah, it sucks, but HK is done.

I imagine most of the population that cannot flee will wind up in a re-education camp at some point in the next ten years.

No one has ever successfully integrated a free population into a socialist one without massive violence. So, I also suspect the death rate in the camps is going to be pretty high.

I'd been warning HK'ers since at least 2005 that this was coming.

Conventional wisdom was that the PRC didn't want to kill the golden goose of the HK economy, so they would be fairly hands off.

But as Xi is displaying, socialists gonna socialize.

It does surprise me that CV-19 was the trigger.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Steve James on Sat May 23, 2020 3:26 pm

Hey, if it's ok to say America first, it's ok for China (and Russia) to do the same. Now, afa human rights abuses, there's a lot of pointing fingers; but there's no consensus. So, China is 3x larger than the US, and it can take HK when it wants. Yeah, Taiwan can be on the menu. What would be our (US) rationale for fighting China on it? "America first" is an argument to let China do what's in China's interest. People have used that argument when it comes to Russia and the Ukraine. Personally, I think the concept results in authoritarian leaders, and then it's up to them what happens. Putin and Xi both consolidate their power in order to get permanent control; one system is communist and the other is not. Same shit, different name.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Sat May 23, 2020 5:20 pm

Peacedog wrote:Yeah, it sucks, but HK is done.

I imagine most of the population that cannot flee will wind up in a re-education camp at some point in the next ten years.

No one has ever successfully integrated a free population into a socialist one without massive violence. So, I also suspect the death rate in the camps is going to be pretty high.

I'd been warning HK'ers since at least 2005 that this was coming.

Conventional wisdom was that the PRC didn't want to kill the golden goose of the HK economy, so they would be fairly hands off.

But as Xi is displaying, socialists gonna socialize.

It does surprise me that CV-19 was the trigger.


Can you point to a time in its history when it was "free"

The need for HK as a financial center was in the process of being addressed even before
the ink was dry.



A danger lies in the thinking that once the CCP is gone whatever takes its place
will be more benign, agreeable with the west.....
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Sat May 23, 2020 8:18 pm

Bao wrote:
.Q. wrote:Xi has been accelerating towards Cultural Revolution 2.0 regardless of any outside influence.


That comment was something I didn't quite understand. I haven't seen anything pointing towards this. He is trying to return China to Socialism after Deng Xiaoping and Yang Zemin made capitalism rule. Xi is making it easier for people to get health care, for children in poor areas to attend better schools etc. I haven't seen any attack on culture or history. Nationalism and hatred towards the US is accelerating though, so it's more like the opposite. They try to emphasise Chinese history and culture and get rid of too much Western influence.

China gotten stronger, it’s just natural that they stand more firm against American imperialism that want a weak China.
Capitalism will continue in China but with Chinese characteristics.
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