Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:23 am

this was not very stealthily done, just as poorly hidden as their(the US) instigator role in HK is https://news.yahoo.com/u-spy-plane-impe ... 00120.html
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:08 am

Trick wrote:this was not very stealthily done, just as poorly hidden as their(the US) instigator role in HK is https://news.yahoo.com/u-spy-plane-impe ... 00120.html


It’s also not clear why the RC-135W engaged in the deception. Steffan Watkins, a Canadian open source intelligence researcher, tells Popular Mechanics:


not clear because it’s not probable.

The RC-135W is not designed for stealth.
Switching a transponder to mimic a civilian aircraft in order to hide it’s identity understanding that they are being tracked already, really?

The US shot down as a civilian aircraft from Iran a long time ago claiming they did the same.
The flight path of the aircraft left the captain very little Time to make a decision.
Unfortunately for the civilian aircraft, Iran among other countries has a long history of doing so.

Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The
. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Keep in mind that a couple of other US war ships in the area were damaged by what was thought to be civilian watercraft.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Bao on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:23 am

windwalker wrote:The RC-135W is not designed for stealth.
Switching a transponder to mimic a civilian aircraft in order to hide it’s identity understanding that they are being tracked already, really?


I believe in the story. China usually don't make up things and only make claims if they have good proofs. I don't know about what's probable, but if they want to spy and collect data it seems reasonable that they use a plane that actually looks exactly like a passenger aircraft? No?

The Boeing RC-135 is a family of large reconnaissance aircraft built by Boeing and modified by a number of companies, including General Dynamics, Lockheed, LTV, E-Systems, and L3 Technologies, and used by the United States Air Force and Royal Air Force to support theater and national level intelligence consumers with near real-time on-scene collection, analysis and dissemination capabilities.

... the RC-135 fleet has participated in every armed conflict involving U.S. forces during its tenure. RC-135s supported operations in Vietnam War, the Mediterranean for Operation El Dorado Canyon, Grenada for Operation Urgent Fury, Panama for Operation Just Cause, the Balkans for Operations Deliberate Force and Allied Force, and Southwest Asia for Operations Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. RC-135s have maintained a constant presence in Southwest Asia since the early 1990s. They were stalwarts of Cold War operations, with missions flown around the periphery of the USSR and its client states in Europe and around the world.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:42 am

I believe in the story. China usually don't make up things and only make claims if they have good proofs. I don't know about what's probable, but if they want to spy and collect data it seems reasonable that they use a plane that actually looks exactly like a passenger aircraft? No?


No?

Think about it.
If there is any confusion about what the aircraft was, the air traffic controller‘s in the area would immediately quarry aircraft.
The crew itself understands it’s being tracked as soon as it takes off from its airbase.
The exception to this for those planes that have stealth Technologies , enabling them to be invisible to systems that track them. “For the most part “

If they did do this, it might’ve been just to see what the reaction would be, understanding that there would be a reaction.

They were not “caught “ unaware .
As the article suggests.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:21 am

a friend who was part of the crew in a P3 Orion

suggested another possibility, they could’ve been ghosting their location.
Which would make sense.

They may have been testing their systems.

The actual plane could be far away from what’s being reported.
Would have to be verified by pictures of the plane in the location it’s being reported in.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Bao on Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:19 am

windwalker wrote:
If they did do this, it might’ve been just to see what the reaction would be, understanding that there would be a reaction.



Intentional provocation? Yeah, that sounds right.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:14 pm

windwalker wrote:
Keep in mind that a couple of other US war ships in the area were damaged by what was thought to be civilian watercraft.

NATO(US) submarines has been “acting” Russian in svedish waters a long time. That story is somewhat intricate and when it surfaced it was hushed away quickly by both the Swedish and NATO sides
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:23 pm

Trick wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Keep in mind that a couple of other US war ships in the area were damaged by what was thought to be civilian watercraft.

NATO(US) submarines has been “acting” Russian in svedish waters a long time. That story is somewhat intricate and when it surfaced it was hushed away quickly by both the Swedish and NATO sides


"hushed away" :o

of course your correct..... ;)

you do understand one of the main purposes of a submarine is not to be detected

On the other hand,

But no Russian sub, or any concrete evidence that such a vessel had been anywhere near Stockhom, was ever found and questions about the costly hunt were soon being raised.

In April 2015, Rear Admiral Anders Grenstad told Swedish newspapers a report to the Swedish government revealed at least one of the sightings of a suspected underwater vessel was in fact a civilian “working boat”.

What Sweden’s former Supreme Commander Sverker Göransson initially described as a “confirmed violation of Swedish waters by a small submarine” turned out to be preliminary data which was later proved to be erroneous.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:32 pm

Bao wrote:
windwalker wrote:The RC-135W is not designed for stealth.
Switching a transponder to mimic a civilian aircraft in order to hide it’s identity understanding that they are being tracked already, really?


I believe in the story. China usually don't make up things and only make claims if they have good proofs. I don't know about what's probable, but if they want to spy and collect data it seems reasonable that they use a plane that actually looks exactly like a passenger aircraft? No?


Was it in 2001 an American Air Force spy plane was forced down on Hainan. That time they spyingly flew as the air force and was intercepted by the PLA’s then poorly Air Force...the incident sparked an overall modernization of the PLA......which now the US say is evil intentions bla bla bla
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:41 pm

Trick wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Keep in mind that a couple of other US war ships in the area were damaged by what was thought to be civilian watercraft.

NATO(US) submarines has been “acting” Russian in svedish waters a long time. That story is somewhat intricate and when it surfaced it was hushed away quickly by both the Swedish and NATO sides



That only means so much to the watchful Russians nearby, however.

On Tuesday, a Russian MiG-29 fighter jet attached to the Northern Fleet intercepted a Norwegian P-3 Orion over the Barents Sea, the latest in a string of Russian intercepts of Norwegian surveillance planes that have increased tensions in the region. On Saturday, a MiG-31 fighter trailed another Norwegian P-3 over international waters, marking the third consecutive day Russian planes intercepted Norwegian aircraft.

So far, there have been no reports of Russian ships or submarines shadowing the NATO ships.

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/09/us- ... tic-coast/


Maybe whats being reported is part of an exercise "acting Russian " could have been part of it
testing tactics and abilities.

including what US and Norwegian officials say will be more US submarines calling at the refurbished port of Tromso, Norway, above the Arctic Circle.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:45 pm

Trick wrote:
Bao wrote:
windwalker wrote:The RC-135W is not designed for stealth.
Switching a transponder to mimic a civilian aircraft in order to hide it’s identity understanding that they are being tracked already, really?


I believe in the story. China usually don't make up things and only make claims if they have good proofs. I don't know about what's probable, but if they want to spy and collect data it seems reasonable that they use a plane that actually looks exactly like a passenger aircraft? No?


Was it in 2001 an American Air Force spy plane was forced down on Hainan. That time they spyingly flew as the air force and was intercepted by the PLA’s then poorly Air Force...the incident sparked an overall modernization of the PLA......which now the US say is evil intentions bla bla bla


:o "forced down"

that could be serious



In 2001, a Chinese jet and a US Navy surveillance aircraft collided off Hainan Island, killing the Chinese pilot. The US spy plane was forced to make an emergency landing on the island and China ...


The surveillance aircraft did not hit the jet. The jet hit the aircraft when the pilot came to close, his jet was struck by one of the props
damaging both planes. He died when his parachute failed to open. Happens :-\

The US crew IMO made the mistake of landing on the island, they should have
jumped and destroyed the aircraft.

anyway,
you might want to check other information sources
I'm out,,,,enjoy life :)
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:57 pm

windwalker wrote:
Trick wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Keep in mind that a couple of other US war ships in the area were damaged by what was thought to be civilian watercraft.

NATO(US) submarines has been “acting” Russian in svedish waters a long time. That story is somewhat intricate and when it surfaced it was hushed away quickly by both the Swedish and NATO sides







Maybe whats being reported is part of an exercise "acting Russian " could have been part of it
testing tactics and abilities.

[
It was a scam so the Swedish navy could eventually get an bigger budget....
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:12 pm

windwalker wrote:




:o "forced down"

that could be serious



In 2001, a Chinese jet and a US Navy surveillance aircraft collided off Hainan Island, killing the Chinese pilot. The US spy plane was forced to make an emergency landing on the island and China ...


The surveillance aircraft did not hit the jet. The jet hit the aircraft when the pilot came to close, his jet was struck by one of the props
damaging both planes. He died when his parachute failed to open. Happens :-\

The US crew IMO made the mistake of landing on the island, they should have
jumped and destroyed the aircraft.

anyway,
you might want to check other information sources
I'm out,,,,enjoy life :)

So either crash it in Chinese water or be forced to land on Chinese territorial..they Couldn’t escape from Chinese territorials....As said, the incident lead to a sharpening of the PLA overall...which now US see as an act of destabilization, while it’s clearly the US that’s the bully
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby .Q. on Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:27 pm

Bao wrote:Better to read a more neutral and not anti-Chinese source: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/05/asia ... index.html

Your link talks about the same Mongolian protests. Not sure what the point is.
Also, you mean I should read more trustworthy Chinese state propaganda like those that claimed Belarusians protest was in SUPPORT of the president? Really? Do you believe the Belarusians were protesting in support of the president?
Global Times claim China will be mass producing 7nm and 5nm chips in 2 years. Do you believe that?
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1189597.shtml
When I told you how China screwed the medical workers during the Wuhan pandemic I gave you link from China's own forum where only those with Chinese accounts can comment. Was that not reliable enough source? Did you actually read it like you claimed you would? How do you feel about what how the workers got screwed over?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/380494722
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:17 am

Mongolia was “chinesified” by the Manchus(Qing) and eventually by them divided into inner and Outer Mongolia, Inner Mongolia was lesser populated by Mongolians since the land was not very fertile for their way of living eventually more Han Chinese settled in there, Hans are now the biggest ethnic group living there....
The foreign powers(US) hated the Qing as much as they now hate PRC..just because they did not/ doesn’t bow down to foreign powers...

Now this foreign power will try its ways in Inner Mongolia too, a quite obvious choice of area to stir up trouble since it’s an autonomous Chinese region also bordering Russia Russia which the US also Hates no matter if it’s a Tsarsom, or the CCCP, or United Russia that’s rules...
This is why we see troubles in White-Russia too, it’s bordering Russia and are Russian friendly......US bullyism is like an seasonal influenza virus, now acting as an pandemic....
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