Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Fri May 29, 2020 3:18 am

.Q. wrote:
Peacedog wrote:As for my medical practice, well, it is destroyed too. Since I am apparently susceptible to whatever the hell is in this virus the 4+ years I spent in school are completely wasted. Too dangerous to practice the hands on part of this.

Could you elaborate a bit on this? How does getting sick make what you studied in school wasted? What school is this? Traditional Chinese medicine?

I’m surprised that a doctor just give up when a virus challenge comes around, wouldn’t this be a time to put in extra efforts seeking methods and solutions ?
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Bao on Fri May 29, 2020 3:56 am

Trick wrote:
.Q. wrote:
Peacedog wrote:As for my medical practice, well, it is destroyed too. Since I am apparently susceptible to whatever the hell is in this virus the 4+ years I spent in school are completely wasted. Too dangerous to practice the hands on part of this.

Could you elaborate a bit on this? How does getting sick make what you studied in school wasted? What school is this? Traditional Chinese medicine?

I’m surprised that a doctor just give up when a virus challenge comes around, wouldn’t this be a time to put in extra efforts seeking methods and solutions ?


What could one single TCM doctor do to find a solution when thousands of doctors, chemists and scientists, all over the world yet have found out very little? :-\
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Fri May 29, 2020 8:03 pm

Peacedog wrote:
As for herbalism, I do know a few of the owners of major pharmacies in the US. Speaking with them, getting their hands on anything right now is quite difficult and increasingly expensive. . If/when, the US and China get into it, we won't have access to any of that. I suspect a very hard trade war. But if I lived in Taiwan, I'd be nervous right about now.


Buy from HK then ?.....Oh, but you supporting the US troublemakers there which play part in the US trade war?

Anyway herbalism is not something specific to China, that stuff was(is) around in Europe too for a long time...why not revive that....grow your own
Last edited by Trick on Sat May 30, 2020 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Giles on Sat May 30, 2020 10:55 am

Bill wrote:There is no anti-science movement in the US. I don't know where you got that. ::)
Where do you think Chinese college students go to learn science? They come to US Universities and Colleges.


The one doesn't exclude the other. The US is amazing at science, fantastic top universities etc., just like you say.

And then again the US has a president with a, shall we say, rather questionable attitude to science, scientific method and scientists who actually follow these principles. Who tends to replace scientifically qualified heads of agencies and organizations with less-qualified yes-men who will say what he wants to hear. He could never keep going in this vein if his attitude didn't broadly reflect that of a large number of people in the US, not all of whom are poorly educated in the formal sense.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Giles on Sat May 30, 2020 11:16 am

Peacedog wrote:As for my medical practice, well, it is destroyed too. Since I am apparently susceptible to whatever the hell is in this virus the 4+ years I spent in school are completely wasted. Too dangerous to practice the hands on part of this.


@ Peacedog
As regards your medical practice: If you have indeed already had Covid-19, which from both symptoms and antibody test sounds pretty certain, then you yourself should be safe from reinfection for a year or two at least. That’s the direction the latest research on post-infection immunity is pointing. (And maybe after this time there’ll be a vaccine). And if you apply the basic principle of not treating people (in your little TCM cubbyhole) who are currently presenting flu/cold-like symptoms or who have recently been in close contact with an infected person, then that should reduce the risk by a great deal. Then both you and your patients wear a mask (by far from a magic bullet in itself, but it helps), you disinfect the treatment table regularly, of course your hands too, and you use/rent a space that can be ventilated after every treatment.
So on that basis, with you having been “lucky” enough to have already been infected, I would think you could operate just fine. Or am I missing some important factors?
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Peacedog on Sat May 30, 2020 11:44 am

Giles,

It's a little unclear if having the anti-bodies results in ultimate immunity while they are in the body or just relative immunity.

In a relative immunity case you are immune to most casual exposures. Which is why I wouldn't worry about jujitsu and like practices if the school has a "don't come in if you are sick policy." The guys are mostly young and healthy and won't be carrying much of a viral load if asymptomatic.

If you get a heavy dose every day over time it overwhelms your immune system. Polio from what I understand operated this way. Which is why FDR, who as a lifelong politician, developed polio in his late 30's. He'd probably had the antibodies for decades as most people did at the time. But something happened and bang he was crippled.

Acupuncture takes place in small, cramped rooms, with lots of soft surfaces. No real way exists to sterilize these places. Combine poor air circulation and the fact that patients often lie and it is a bad mix.

Even in conventional medicine a relative who is having a knee replacement of all things is getting it done on an outpatient basis specifically due to the risk of staying in the hospital for a couple of days. Which is insane, but there you go.

If UV lighting were a proven disinfectant method in combination with masks and a strict policy with patients, I might consider it.

Keep in mind that while I wasn't hospitalized, I still had residual inflammation in the lower lobes of my lungs eight weeks after contracting the disease as confirmed by CT. My pulmonologist was a little confused. He said, "I would say you have asthma, except I known you don't have that and it is only in the lower third of each lung." I got lucky and escaped without permanent lung damage this time.

For whatever reason, I appear susceptible to the disease. Until I get clearer answers it is just too risky. I can live with an arm or a leg. I can't live without my lungs.

Sadly a number of older practitioners I know have closed up shop and said without a working vaccine that they aren't going back. From a skills perspective we just lost a crap load of people.
Last edited by Peacedog on Sat May 30, 2020 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Giles on Sat May 30, 2020 12:38 pm

Peacedog wrote:........................
Keep in mind that while I wasn't hospitalized, I still had residual inflammation in the lower lobes of my lungs eight weeks after contracting the disease as confirmed by CT. My pulmonologist was a little confused. He said, "I would say you have asthma, except I known you don't have that and it is only in the lower third of each lung." I got lucky and escaped without permanent lung damage this time.

For whatever reason, I appear susceptible to the disease. Until I get clearer answers it is just too risky. I can live with an arm or a leg. I can't live without my lungs.
.......................


Then I do understand and appreciate your situation better - thanks for the clarification. Man, what a bummer. Then I hope you do indeed get some more clarification in the (near) future, and that it points in a positive direction. In your situation I'd do the same - that really is a case of 'better safe than sorry'.

One of my secondary lines of work is as a craniosacral therapist and also wellness masseur, and since it all blew up I have pretty much stopped giving treatments or advertising myself, and have concentrated on translation and on teaching tai chi (online or outdoors). I still feel very split about resuming this work, for various reasons to do with myself and those around me.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby bailewen on Sat May 30, 2020 10:58 pm

@Bill,

Pleasantly surprised by your response.

I hope you also realize I am not defending China on this. It's more of a frustration at our own response.

I view the ant-science thing in terms of trajectories, not status. US Universities are still MILES ahead of Chinese Unis. Actually, at the college level, China has a truly long way to catch up. But culturally, nerds are still praised. The government is intensely interested in the tech race, and the government is modeling pro-science. Government bureaucrats wear surgical masks when they are on TV and culturally, hard science is glorified more than finance.

We had our "sputnik moment" with Russia. China's "sputnik moment" was about 4 or 5 years ago when Google AI beat the world champion at Go. That basically launched a massive race for the best AI. Also, as China does not value privacy they way we do, they have a tremendous advantage for AI research because AI development is at a point now where having the best scientists is not as important as having the best data, and there is a saying in AI research that, "there's not data like more data", and China has more data than anyone.

Also, ironically, and sadly, their tight controls on social media have protected them from foreign interference in their mediasphere. So while most of their media is highly censored propaganda, the propaganda is mostly aimed at promoting policies that are in the national interest.

So at the end of the day, in "realpolitik" terms, they are winning.

I seriously wish they weren't because I desperately want to move home, but with a crashing economy and open rebellion in the streets, it's kind of hard to convince my wife that we would really have a better life in the US. It blows my fucking mind that I have to work hard to convince my Chinese wife that life will be safer and more prosperous in the US.

I am losing the argument.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Sat May 30, 2020 11:10 pm

So the US(most probably)plant viruses in China and then themselves get it, they fire up riots in Hong Kong and getting hit themselves with riots......Maybe with their amazing science a vaccine for stupidity will come around
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Sat May 30, 2020 11:23 pm

Talking science, the private space X just launched to space a manned rocket,. NASA lacking behind? Maybe too much US fundings goes to launch rebellions
outside US borders, space has to wait.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby bailewen on Sun May 31, 2020 2:26 am

went for hot pot last year. kind of interesting "servers" delivering the food:
Last edited by bailewen on Sun May 31, 2020 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby vadaga on Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:27 am

Things are getting pretty hot over in HK now that the new national security law is in place.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Trick on Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:41 pm

. the new national security law is in place.
Good. Hopefully now foreign power lackeys will stop disturbing the peace so HK can continue its strive to be a non criminal haven
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby GrahamB on Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:00 am

Boris Johnson announced every Hong Kong resident can have British citizenship.......then China says, er no, and the UK foreign secretary admits it can't force China to let citizens leave. Typical of the utterly incompetant UK gov. at the moment.
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Re: Hong Kong: end of one country, two systems?

Postby Bao on Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:33 am

bailewen wrote:... I desperately want to move home, but with a crashing economy and open rebellion in the streets, it's kind of hard to convince my wife that we would really have a better life in the US. It blows my fucking mind that I have to work hard to convince my Chinese wife that life will be safer and more prosperous in the US.


Honestly I have no idea why you want to return to the USA right now. Why do you believe that you would have a better life in the US? Maybe on the long run it's easier to earn better money in the US if you want a more traditional job and career. But doing business in China as you know can be very, very lucrative.

...But I know, you have stayed there for a long time and I am sure you have seen other sides of China that I haven't. My wife would maybe wished she had stayed in Shanghai a longer time, but otoh, she would not wan to really live and work in any other city. She believe that if you live and work in Chinese society as a Chinese, it can be very hard. Things like inequalities, social things and relationships really wear some people down. But from the little I know, I can imagine that living in the US is not always the easiest thing.
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