What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby grzegorz on Sat May 30, 2020 1:45 am

Michael wrote:
I am not quite sure we are on the same page.

You can say that again. Maybe re-read from beginning when not driving.



-lol-You lose sir.

Go sell your conspiracy theories elsewhere and let the men who actually do martial arts talk.

Get a job too while you're at.

I am enjoying my vacation thank you very much.

Maybe one day you will actually learn some jiu-jitsu and know what the fick you're talking about.

Tucker Carlson...::) Glad to see some things never change.

And glad to see I can still get your panties in a bunch. Funny, I was being nice to you but whatever I am here for entertainment purposes onIy.

No packages for you!
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat May 30, 2020 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6913
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: America great yet?

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby Giles on Sat May 30, 2020 7:21 am

It's true that it's generally speaking it's older people and more overweight people who are much more at risk of developing severe symptoms, or even dying, through infection with Covid-19 than 'younger', 'fitter' and less overweight people. But it's now also clear that one major factor determining the severity of a SARS-Cov-2 infection is the size of the virus load you get in the course of being infected. If your respiratory tract gets a very big dose of the virus in one go, or is exposed to larger doses repeatedly, then the chances of getting really ill - even if you're young and (fairly) fit - is much higher. That's why significant numbers of (relatively) young, fit and slim healthcare workers working around patients with Covid-19 have been dying in various countries in recent months - because they were frequently exposed to people with Covid-19 infections, even while themselves wearing (some level of) protective gear.

I've done some rolling myself (although not in the last few years) and I can't think of any way you can really get closer, for longer, to another sweating, panting human being, while you're sweating and panting yourself. Apart from... ;) Although even during good sex you might (sometimes) not actually be exchanging as much sweat and respiratory droplets/aerosols as you will be during rolling!
(Feel free to differ on the basis of experience ... ;D )

Plus, in a normal gym session you'll probably be rolling with at least 3 or 4 other people, if not more.
Sure, you can then assume that the chance of a training partner being infected is far less than it is in a hospital ward, but IF someone else has the virus, even if they're totally asymptomatic, then the chance of catching a high viral load, with the said consequences, is more than vanishingly small.
This risk is, I would think, also a lot higher as compared to training tuishou / applications / sparring outdoors, where both partners can wear a more effective mask and disinfect hands and maybe face before and after, and wearing the mask probably won't give you heatstroke.

Some people will still roll and maybe/probably they'll be OK, but I'd say they are still running something of a risk, both for themselves and for others in their contact sphere.
Unfortunately. Really bitter for the people for whom this is their main type of training. I was actually planning to start doing some rolling again with a small and easygoing BJJ group here in Berlin later this year, but I guess that will go on the back burner for the time being.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
Giles
Wuji
 
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby grzegorz on Sat May 30, 2020 12:50 pm

I completely agree which is why I am concerned. It's one thing walking by someone closer than 2 meters but it is a whole other thing to roll for an hour doing six 10 minute rounds on a hot day.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6913
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: America great yet?

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby Steve James on Sat May 30, 2020 2:04 pm

When there was a reliable treatment, we can deal with as we do with other infectious diseases.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19272
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby Michael on Sat May 30, 2020 2:55 pm

the severity of a SARS-Cov-2 infection is the size of the virus load you get in the course of being infected


As far as I know, the occurrence of doctors and nurses who are treating people succumbing to the disease is directly related to a viral load you can only get in a hospital with covid positives, which also seemed to be the case with the Guangzhou epicenter of SARS, where a very significant portion of the infections occurred in hospitals. There doesn't seem to be any other "concentration zone" that is comparable to a hospital with infected, symptomatic patients.

I very much doubt even an hour of rolling with one infected person, who would have to be asymptomatic in order to enter the gym—which is again less of a viral load than from a hospital patient—that an hour of bjj with them would be comparable to the total viral load that pushes a doctor's immune system over the edge, probably requiring days in order to reach that threshold.
"but we’re going to hunt down that last point-one percent and say: ‘you’ve gotta get inside, you gotta cut it out, and you gotta distance.’” —Mayor Garcetti
Michael
Great Old One
 
Posts: 12913
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:05 pm
Location: 自由 国家

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby grzegorz on Sat May 30, 2020 3:26 pm

I always liked Kesting.



https://youtu.be/4OwrMxVFoxM

He has been developing solo training for years.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat May 30, 2020 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6913
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: America great yet?

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby Steve James on Sat May 30, 2020 5:24 pm

Fwiw, the stats now show that hospital workers have fewer occurrences of catching the virus. Once there was enough protective equipment, their rates of infection went down lower than the general population. Yes, the issue of viral load is crucial; but, hospital workers in ppe were exposed less than the general public. When the virus first emerged, the hospital workers were unprepared. Far fewer doctors and nurses are being infected nowadays. This point was brought up numerous times in the press conferences. Y'all can check.

Right. If you want full protection, get a hazmat suit. :) Though, there is a notion/suggestion that a complete face shield is better than a mask.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19272
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby Dmitri on Sun May 31, 2020 5:14 pm

fuga wrote:Are you returning?

The place I trained is doing similar no-contact MMA work. I can't imagine the grappling portion opening up for some time then and I honestly have little to no interest in a grappling training environment until there is a vaccine. There are safer ways to socialize.

Dmitri wrote:Our Gracie JJ school has been doing online stuff but last week "softly" reopened only for no-contact "MMA striking" work (limited number of people, 3 persons per bag to maintain distance). Added extra time between classes for changing rooms, and for the cleanup/wipe-down.
He's planning to eventually add actual standup work (weapons disarm drills, etc.), and at some point resume grappling work.
Continuing with Zoom classes until then.

Yeah definitely looking forward to returning. My son too (he just turned 16). It's not even socializing (for me) as much as it is just a fun way to move, at this point. I stopped worrying about "learning self-defense" several years ago so it's sort of just a fun way to do a whole-body work out. I'll probably just roll with one or two people max, though.
Last edited by Dmitri on Sun May 31, 2020 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9662
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: What's going to happen to martial arts and grappling gyms?

Postby Dmitri on Sun May 31, 2020 5:26 pm

Giles wrote:I...one major factor determining the severity of a SARS-Cov-2 infection is the size of the virus load you get in the course of being infected. If your respiratory tract gets a very big dose of the virus in one go, or is exposed to larger doses repeatedly, then the chances of getting really ill - even if you're young and (fairly) fit - is much higher. That's why significant numbers of (relatively) young, fit and slim healthcare workers working around patients with Covid-19 have been dying in various countries in recent months - because they were frequently exposed to people with Covid-19 infections, even while themselves wearing (some level of) protective gear.

Yeah that's a good point... Apparently the immune system is most effective with it during the entry into the body; once a "critical mass" of it makes it into lungs without giving the immune system a chance, it's "too late".
Will definitely keep an eye on research in that area, watch what changes...
Last edited by Dmitri on Sun May 31, 2020 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9662
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Previous

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests