Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

[windwalker]

After the video shows Mr. Gugino stopping in front of the officers to talk, an officer yells “push him back” three times; one officer pushes his arm into Mr. Gugino’s chest, while another extends his baton toward him with both hands. Mr. Gugino flails backward, landing just out of range of the camera, with blood immediately leaking from his right ear.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/us/b ... nrest.html

mm, maybe a different 75yr old man...not beat up...pushed back and tripped.

Where is the leadership here?

“These officers were simply following orders from Deputy Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia to clear the square,” Mr. Evans told The News. “It doesn’t specify clear the square of men, 50 and under or 15 to 40. They were simply doing their job. I don’t know how much contact was made. He did slip, in my estimation. He fell backwards.”

[windwalker]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-shove-protester-unrest.html

57 of their fellow officers resigned. Good riddance!

You're siding with 2 bullies who beat up a 75 year old man. You should all be terribly ashamed of yourselves. WTF. Who are the fucking criminals here? The fucking old guy protester?????????? This is the bullshit that goes on and on.

AR-15s by "lone wolfs" (if they're white) and police brutality. Where is the leadership here?

is there a video of the " 75 year old man" being beaten up?

Here it is.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlmAfv-mrXA

you posted " 2 bullies who beat up a 75 year old man".
is that what you see?

looks like one of them looked at the guy on the ground, speaking into his mic, probably called an ambulance.

[Michael]

you posted " 2 bullies who beat up a 75 year old man".
is that what you see?

Where do you get that? Here is the title of the video I posted a minute ago.

GRAPHIC CONTENT: Buffalo Police Officers Shove Elderly Protester to the Ground

I'm hitting the hay in a minute here in central time zone. Might not get back to this until tomorrow.

[windwalker]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-shove-protester-unrest.html

57 of their fellow officers resigned. Good riddance!

You're siding with 2 bullies who beat up a 75 year old man. You should all be terribly ashamed of yourselves. WTF. Who are the fucking criminals here? The fucking old guy protester?????????? This is the bullshit that goes on and on.

AR-15s by "lone wolfs" (if they're white) and police brutality. Where is the leadership here?

some confusion...my post was directed at what "everything" had posted

He mentions some one getting "beat up" didn't see it in the clip...did you?

[Trick]

Anyway, it’s quite obvious that if the policeforce gets overwhelmed by rioting mobs, there will/must be taken other measures ?

You mean in HK? Sure, there's no guarantee that anyone can protest in China. It's possible that PRC soldiers would be willing to shoot HKers. I remember that the well known image from Tianamen Square was that of the one guy standing down the tank.

Rioters might take over a street, but it can't last forever. There's no need for a small force of officers to confront a crowd. Otoh, using overwhelming force against people doesn't make people stop. It creates rebels because using force always results in collateral victims --who were innocent of any wrongdoing.

If everyone in HK is willing to take a bullet, the PRC won't win because the price will be too high. I think there could be an agreement that allows both sides to save face. Cause it's all about makin' dat money.

Now you just turn around what I wrote(that you quoted)

If the HK “policeforce get overwhelmed bu rioting mobs” is what I wrote. Then measures must be taken to stop the overwhelmers

. Rioters might take over a street, but it can't last forever.

yes forever it won’t go on, but for HK they have been going on for quite some time, they of course get fundings from somewhere..For the situation in the US, protesters and rioters probably do not get funds for their activities , but they do get encouraging advice openly from higher ups to mask up. Perhaps free face masks.

[Trick]

How many weeks, months, (maybe a year or more?) is the basic police education in the US ?

[windwalker]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-shove-protester-unrest.html

57 of their fellow officers resigned. Good riddance!

You're siding with 2 bullies who beat up a 75 year old man. You should all be terribly ashamed of yourselves. WTF. Who are the fucking criminals here? The fucking old guy protester?????????? This is the bullshit that goes on and on.

AR-15s by "lone wolfs" (if they're white) and police brutality. Where is the leadership here?

still looking for the one who got "beat up" looks like they did ask a 75 yr old man to leave, turns out he was an "agitator"

Byron Brown, the mayor of Buffalo, N.Y., said Friday the 75-year-old man who was shoved to the ground by two cops the previous day was an “agitator” who had been asked to leave the area “numerous” times.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/buffalo-mayo ... d-agitator

What we were informed of is that that individual was an agitator. He was trying to spark up the crowd of people. Those people were there into the darkness. Our concern is when it gets dark, there is a potential for violence,” Brown said.

“There has been vandalism, there have been fires set, there have been stores broken into and looted. According to what was reported to me, that individual was a key major instigator of people engaging in those activities,” the mayor said.

[Steve James]

Yep, he was the agitator who instigated everything. Therefore, the police must have been right. I guess it worked, too. Seeing their leader taken to the hospital sure convinced them they were wrong.

Fwiw, I think that if they'd stopped first to help the guy, it would have looked much better. I also think that if it had been someone protesting the lockdown, the reaction at FOX would be different.

[windwalker]

Looks like one of them called for an ambulance speaking into his mike.
The streets were being cleared the old guy chose to make a stand after being told to move and was pushed back.
He tripped and fell.

Reminds me of another incident where are young protester thought it was a good idea to put his leg in front of a train attempting to stop it as it was moving slow. I guess thinking the engineer could stop it quickly.

He thought wrong

The train ran over me and I mean it ran through us at 17 miles an hour, more than three times the legal speed limit,” Willson said.

Two of the vets managed to jump away at the last second. Willson was run over by the 200,000 pound locomotive. The crushing blow from the train cut off his legs, left him with multiple broken bones and a plate in his head.

That was it, it was going to fast
The fact that he happened to be on the track had nothing to do with it.

“They tried to stop, but traveling at 5 m.p.h. it’s going to take 150 or 200 feet to stop,” said Dan Tikalsky, public affairs officer for the naval station.

Protesters said the train was going 20 m.p.h. and needed 500 to 1,000 feet to stop.

Although the protesters believed that the weapons aboard the train were bound for Central America, Tikalsky said the train was simply moving the explosives from one side of the base to another.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

[Giles]

Whatever the elderly man might have been doing in previous hours or days is not germane to the events shown in the video. The elderly man wasn’t violently resisting, he was remonstrating. The police officers didn’t beat him up, they pushed him. After being pushed, the man (as a 75-year-old) further lost his balance, stumbled back and fell. The police officers presumably didn’t intend for him to go to the ground. But if they hadn’t pushed him like they did, then he wouldn’t have fallen. In the ‘conflict’ situation shown, one or two police officers could simply have taken him by the arms and led him aside. (Maybe they didn’t realize he was an old man?). He stood alone, there were dozens of officers around him. If he had then struggled or become violent, they could have then taken their actions to the next level.

The entire squad has resigned in protest at the suspension of the two police officers involved in the incident. The two officers have been suspended after their initial physical actions, combined with an unlucky and probably unintended follow-on, led to a 75-year-old, non-violent protester being critically injured. The two officers have been suspended from duty. As far as I understand it, this is a standard action under such circumstances while events are further investigated. It certainly would be standard in most European countries, anyway. Currently they haven’t been disciplined, they haven’t been sacked, they haven’t been found guilty of any crime. Personally, I find the reaction of the squad as a whole disproportionate.

[Steve James]

The man was in the way of the police, and they went over him. They'd do it to him; they'd do it to you.

He was peacefully protesting exactly the type of treatment he got. If he was shot throwing a brick at an officer, I think there might be an argument --because that's not peaceful protest and protected by the "First" amendment. People even have the "right" to assemble in a public space and shout at the cops. Theoretically, the "government" is supposed to protect the citizen and the citizen's rights. It is possible to do that AND protect property, but the citizens come first.

Btw, maybe that old man started protesting in the 60s, when police violence against peaceful protesters was the norm (because of what they were protesting). It has a long history, and there are millions of people who remember --and not because they had to take a class.

Afa police officers quitting a voluntary detail in solidarity, ok, that's team spirit. And, if an officer quits because he doesn't want to be forced to push old people around, good for him. However, if he quits because he thinks he needs to knock old people (and protesters) down in order to do his job, Good Riddance. He should just quit altogether.

[Steve James]

There's just no man in the mask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrwTDfdck7I

[Giles]

Steve, I think I appreciate and empathize with what you say - speaking myself as a systemically relatively privileged older white guy in Europe, with enough to get by on - and my own feelings about this event and what it stands for in the broader context are quite strong. I didn't express these feelings in what I just wrote. I was attempting to establish a kind of baseline for that video because I felt that some comments from various standpoints were starting to disconnect from what what can be seen. Not sure if my attempt here is useful or not.

[Steve James]

Oh, I wasn't directing my comments at you Giles. All that's ever really necessary is sincere listening, and the ability to identify with another human being. Someone always gives a reason why the victim deserved what he got. My argument is that it's only accepted if someone (else) deserved is the victim. Everybody knows what's right and wrong when it comes to how they feel they should be treated.

There's no way to know how someone else feels. However, just imagine it's you, or remember how it felt in a similar situation. That's a really close approximation.

[grzegorz]

https://youtu.be/esyMFOu8ZFE