Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:50 pm

Bao wrote:About the rapist, murderer and terrorist Columbus...:

Letter from C:
“As soon as I arrived in the Indies, on the first Island which I found, I took some of the natives by force in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts...
...They would make fine servants… With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.”

Here's the whole letter:
https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/coretext ... RQFUsYtdqw

Michele de Cuneo, close friend to C:
“While I was in the boat I captured a very beautiful Carib woman, whom the said Lord Admiral gave to me, and with whom, having taken her into my cabin, she being naked according to their custom, I conceived desire to take pleasure. I wanted to put my desire into execution but she did not want it and treated me with her finger nails in such a manner that I wished I had never begun. But seeing that (to tell you the end of it all), I took a rope and thrashed her well, for which she raised such unheard of screams that you would not have believed your ears. Finally we came to an agreement in such manner that I can tell you that she seemed to have been brought up in a school of harlots.”


Cortes also kept a journal of what he did to the Aztecs and it shows you the misery those people went through.
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:17 pm

everything wrote:
grzegorz wrote:I was reading some on Churchill and it sounds like he had the thinking of what would have been typical for an colonial Englishman of his time.

I spent some time on a former English colony in the islands and as expected those of English descent thought much the same as their grandparents did. I suppose the South here is probably similar among some land owning families.

Not sure why they would want his statues removed but obviously Churchill symbolizes something to some people that I was not aware of.

Perhaps, as pointed out, we should have no more statues.

The irony is it used to be said that history is written by the winners yet we can see that you can only silence history for so long. Eventually most of it will come out.


I listened to a speaker yesterday who was horrified to find her ancestors had a plantation and owned 5 slaves. Her more recent ancestry was super poor but that doesn't make up for or change anything.


I should clarify that I don't think these people were guilt free of the past as much as they did see themselves as superior because of their English blood much as Mexicans with more Spanish blood look down at the indigenous who do the lowest paying jobs and often face discrimination.
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:52 pm

Steve James wrote:Not Wikipedia knowledge, I've taught American history for 30 years.


Nice one Steve!

I knew you were driving buses at one time or another. I didn't realize that was 30 years ago.

Very impressive.

I wish I would have stayed on and got an advanced history degree but life went a different direction. But no regrets, in fact I am glad history has taught me how verify information in the information age.
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:50 am

Steve James wrote:Not Wikipedia knowledge, I've taught American history for 30 years.
thats very good, but you did referred to
. Meh, there's always wikipedia.
at one point...now there’s no Wikipedia here where I live so I have to go slightly other roads than you to get info
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:10 am

Giles wrote:
Steve James wrote: Britannia was the Roman name for what's now Britain.

True, but the Romans didn't invent the name. It was first referred to under this name, more or less, by a Greek writer almost four hundred years before Caesar came along to the island to adminster a spot of forced civilizing. The root name was probably Pretani or Priteni (emphasis on last syllable): "a Celtic word that probably means "the painted ones" or "the tattooed folk", referring to body decoration." So it's what the Celtish peoples living there ('Britons') called themselves.

As Steve certainly knows, if the Dutch hadn't lost the settlement on the Hudson to the British in 1664, then the Big Apple would now still be NA / New Amsterdam.

All very off-topic, but maybe we need something lighter after all the heavy themes recently. :)

That’s interesting. As i first thought Brittany(Britain) was named after the region Bretagne. But after checking, it turn out that it was celts from the islands(Britain) fleeing Saxons to settle in north of France that named that French region which today is Bretagne......( of course there’s been Celtic people’s around in France way before that happened, but the name Bretagne come from settlers from “Britainnia”)........Britannia as an Roman. goddess as some sources claim could of course be an adopted goddess from the Greek pantheon
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby Steve James on Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:27 am

I say look it up because I don't want my students to ever take my word for it. And, I think if someone has a question, it's better to look it up before forming an opinion. Otherwise, as on the internet, people just look up things that confirm their original bias --i.e., what they thought.

Anyway, the op is about America, and where that name came from. We didn't personify the continent at all. The US personified the US as a woman, just as the Romans did. But, they didn't call it "America." They called it Columbia, but it wasn't a goddess. That came when Columbia was replaced by the "goddess of liberty" that stands in NY harbor.

As a side note I mentioned to Ian that we call the people in France, the French, and that their language is French. It works for Italy, but it also works for Swaziland or Lesotho. (The Swazi speak Swazi, and the latter speak Sotho). The point is that is not the case in the Americans. People speak Spanish, but they're not. People speak English, but they're not. However, Canada is named after the original inhabitants, and so is Mexico. Canadian French (and English) and Mexican Spanish are distinctive.

But, when it comes to the US, it's more complicated. More than half of our states are named after the indigenous people who lived there, and most of the rest are of Spanish origin (though the Spaniards might have been influenced by the Native name). Alabama is a fine name, but there should be a representation of the Alabama people. (Ok, most of the original South Eastern Indians were moved west).

The statues do mean something, and they are there for more than remembering "history." The Columbus statue hides more than it reveals about history. That's because his history is unpleasant and not heroic. He writes back the natives treated him like a god. FFS, he didn't speak any native language. He just saw they would be unable to do anything about it. Though, that is a hell of a story that people don't get in history books because it makes him look bad, and if he's bad, then what about the people who idolize him.
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:23 am

Steve James wrote:
Anyway, the op is about America, and where that name came from. We didn't personify the continent at all. The US personified the US as a woman, just as the Romans did. But, they didn't call it "America." They called it Columbia, but it wasn't a goddess. That came when Columbia was replaced by the "goddess of liberty" that stands in NY harbor.

i do not really follow your explaination here, are you saying this ? - https://philofem.org/the-original-roman ... y-liberty/
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby Steve James on Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:33 am

I was talking about the Statue of Liberty as the US personification of itself rather than Columbia.
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby Steve James on Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:06 am

Hmm, maybe we got it from these guys. I dunno.
Image
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... h_2007.JPG
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:46 pm

Steve James wrote:Hmm, maybe we got it from these guys. I dunno.
Image
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... h_2007.JPG

It was in the early 1800 when Moder(Mother) Svea got to become sole personification for Sweden, before that she held a second or third place in that race, the King (and then the Queen) held the top positions as personifications of the country.
I don’t know if Moder Svea was an invention by Svearna(the ancient people inhabiting the Roslagen area of today’s Sweden where we find Stockholm and the important city of Uppsala)
If Götarna(the Goths) had won the many and long “battles” over Svearna, then symbols might have been different and the capital would probably had been
Gothenburg today.

It was also Svearna who established Russia, the name derives from the name of the area where Svearna came from -Roslagen....they didn’t introduce any female personification to that “new world”(Russia) however...
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:59 pm

It’s (or was) common to give female names and epithet to objects and nations and the whole earth and other celestial bodies.
If anything involving Columbus should have named or personified the Americas, then maybe it should have been Santa Maria ?
However maybe there’s a connection between the symbolism of Saint Mary and Liberta?
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby everything on Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:05 pm

Gugino has fractured skull and cannot walk yet.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/us/marti ... index.html
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby LaoDan on Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:41 am

Deleted due to posting in incorrect thread.
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Re: Why is the USA the most terrible police state in the world

Postby grzegorz on Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:49 pm

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
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