prone restraining

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prone restraining

Postby windwalker on Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:40 pm

What happened to the mr Floyd was wrong.
condolences to the family.

It's been said that the tactics of prone restraining with the knee was not or is not trained.

Not exactly true would be interested in reading from those who grapple if its something they train to do.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpb9rs-ttOk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuomhS_M1o

very recent even after what happened.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snj_OOFw440
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: prone restraining

Postby windwalker on Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:52 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW_vIniyG_U

2:55 it seems like something that is trained
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: prone restraining

Postby everything on Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:12 pm

plenty of non-lethal techniques. most likely this board's members know a lot.
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Re: prone restraining

Postby Michael on Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:08 pm

Don't do it this way as it can prove fatal. Be sure to have the sound on.

Dallas, by the way. August 10, 2016. Family got the body cam released in August 2019.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0
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Re: prone restraining

Postby GrahamB on Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:08 am

"What happened to the mr Floyd was wrong. "

No shit? Good job you pointed that out...

I learned knee on neck as a restraint in martial arts classes before I did BJJ. It's fucking horrible. You just want to tap from the pain, let alone the fact you're also going unconscious very slowly. I can't imagine what it's like on concrete.

It is never taught in any BJJ classes I've been to. I always wondered why. When I was a white belt in my first year and not entirely sure of the dojo etiquette I was rolling with this blue belt who was way better than me - taller too, really long legs, kept getting me with a leg triangle over and over. He really put it on hard too, so it hurt each time. Eventually I was getting fed up and frustrated by this so I managed to get past his guard - he turned on his side, so I did knee on neck. He tapped, but he got so pissed off with me that when we went again he arm barred me and cranked my arm and didn't let go quickly enough when I tapped. It wasn't too bad at the time because I was warm, but once I cooled down I felt that in my elbow for about a year. I've never tried knee on neck since. ;D He was ok about it afterwards, but he did say that it felt "horrible". Lesson learned.

It's technically allowed in the rules of BJJ comps (I think), but comes under one of those "dick moves" that nobody does in rolling because it's too nasty, and you risk escalating the situation.

Knee on face is another.
Last edited by GrahamB on Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: prone restraining

Postby everything on Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:48 am

An old school karate teacher pointed out to us that in the NFL, one or two large guys on you makes you unable to move, then proceeded to do pins on us (he weighed a lot), and commented add his buddy who weighs a lot as well, and no way we can get out of the pin. I think my first judo lesson was pins by people my weight and darn they do work well with no dick move or lethal techniques or damage done. assuming I had backup for the pin (Since you are occupied in the pin), there are effective techniques. I can see how a knee feels safer to the person doing the pin since you can still be looking around, etc. but a guy who's already on the ground, handcuffed ...
Last edited by everything on Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: prone restraining

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:38 am

You let go of a hold when the opponent taps. But that's because you care about the opponent. Personally, I think I could handle almost anyone handcuffed behind the back and lying on his belly. At least in less than five minutes. Lots of people are gassed by the then.
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Re: prone restraining

Postby everything on Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:42 am

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/us/mn-mi ... index.html

common in Minneapolis, restricted or banned in other cities' departments. ???
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Re: prone restraining

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:26 pm

Used a lot in Silat and FMA but so are knives
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Re: prone restraining

Postby everything on Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:54 am

I mean if they are for martial = war, yeah makes sense.

for arresting people, and in the process killing them via knee on neck or knife ... well the lethality being deliberately avoided is kind of the point
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Re: prone restraining

Postby Dmitri on Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:33 pm

It's not about what move he used.
It's about him maintaining the pressure for several minutes after the guy became non-responsive. Even if you were not taught anything at all, you would instinctively know to stop. That's why animals play dead and why humans pass out in some circumstances.
Last edited by Dmitri on Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: prone restraining

Postby everything on Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:17 pm

yup...murder
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Re: prone restraining

Postby Michael on Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:47 am

This seems to be the de facto George Floyd thread, so I'm posting this page of the autopsy report here.

HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER’S OFFICE AUTOPSY REPORT
ME NO.: 20-3700
CASE TITLE: CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION
DECEASED: George Floyd aka Floyd Perry SEX: M AGE: 46
DATE AND HOUR OF DEATH: 5-25-20; 9:25 p.m.
DATE AND HOUR OF AUTOPSY: 5-26-20; 9:25 a.m.
PATHOLOGIST: Andrew M. Baker, M.D.

toxicology and injury page

Image

Full report
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Re: prone restraining

Postby Michael on Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:05 am

Image
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Re: prone restraining

Postby grzegorz on Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:49 am

FWIW an independent autopsy got different results.

Want to experience blood choke?

Then go train (once this is over).
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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