Does Chauvin have a defence?

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Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Bill on Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:37 am

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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby windwalker on Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:51 am

4. Neck restraint is common in ExDS, and ExDS suspects have died in all types of restraint


From the link.
Appears to be something that is trained,
and used in certain situations.
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby yeniseri on Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:09 am

Symptoms never mattered to Chauvin(ism) aptly named ??? !
For whatever reason, he wanted to show the recruits that they should take charge of the scenario to show who's the boss.

If we examine the cases of less than exemplary outocmes where police brutality is investigated, they will alwya be set free. Based on past (pattern and practice) it is only the black/brown element of law enforcement who tend to be prosecuted for similar action that the whites police officer have committed. Look at the statictics prior to May 2020!
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby everything on Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:19 am

this is why the systemic racism has to end - not just the decision making of an isolated officer (or many of them), but the bystanding officers, the judges, the juries, the legal system - in order to stop these kinds of senseless killings. if there isn't any consequence, who stops these incidents? another guy killed the other day in atlanta. he had gotten hold of a police taser and ran; they tried to take him down with a taser, didn't work, so they shot him dead. for what? why aren't there better steps before escalating to shooting people dead?
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:25 am

Sure, he may get off. It'd be unusual if he didn't. I don't expect him to be convicted, and can't be sued because of qualified immunity, and may probably go to work somewhere else. That's the norm.

Part of the problem is the video. No matter how legitimate a particular hold may be, it didn't appear that it was necessary to hold it for 9 minutes. Not to mention that Chauvin actually knew Mr. Floyd; they worked different shifts as security at the same establishment.

I think that's why the charges were upgraded to 2nd degree murder from 3rd degree. Second degree requires intent. First degree means that you planned to do it before hand. Second degree implies that you developed the intent at the time.

So, the prosecutor will probably argue that Chauvin already had something against Floyd, and when they accidentally met, Chauvin was able to get back at Floyd. Iow, he developed the intent during the commission of a felony.

Yep. I expect lots of arguments and citations of legitimate police use of force. That always happens. Last night, a drunk guy was shot in a Wendy's parking lot after struggling with a couple of cops who woke him up while he was sleeping in his car. Well, yeah, he was drunk, and he failed a dui test, and he struggled, and he was shot in the back as tried to flee. I.e., as the drunk guy tried to flee, he was shot dead.

Anyway, that Wendy's was burned down last night. People will wonder why. Too bad, though. When Chauvin gets acquitted, people will wonder why there are more demonstrations. Of course, we have to take emotions off the table and follow the law. You know, trial by judge and jury of one's peers. Oh boy, the jury.
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby windwalker on Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:33 am

Yep. I expect lots of arguments and citations of legitimate police use of force. That always happens. Last night, a drunk guy was shot in a Wendy's parking lot after struggling with a couple of cops who woke him up while he was sleeping in his car. Well, yeah, he was drunk, and he failed a dui test, and he struggled, and he was shot in the back as tried to flee. I.e., as the drunk guy tried to flee, he was shot dead.


lets see if this is really what happened and why he was shot
from another perspective


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSV_vW7 ... e=youtu.be
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:51 am

Has he or Candace Owens ever sid the cops were not justified? Justified means it was legitimate, not that it was right. People want justice, not justification. Like I said, it's going to be argued that what they did was legal. So, what else is new?

Anyway, remember Rodney King? Three decades ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdktDOeG2VI

They were acquitted.
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Bill on Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:16 pm

Weren't there two other men in the car with Rodney, who obeyed the police and were not beaten?
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:23 pm

I have no idea. I just know what I saw, and it wasn't enough to get them convicted. Things like that had been witnessed, but never filmed. Like I said, people will say it was justified --or that he resisted, or that he had a record, or that he was on drugs, or that he was something or other that makes what they did alright.

I say that if it were you laying on the ground and getting beaten, you wouldn't think you deserved it.
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Bill on Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:26 pm

I agree with that.
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Peacedog on Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:03 pm

So basically it comes down to this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

And regarding the Wendy's guy there is this....

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/video-surv ... U_t5x60alw
Last edited by Peacedog on Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:09 pm

Both were about the Wendy's guy. It was the cop's taser, and the man had already been tased several times.
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that a taser doesn't travel as far as a bullet. The taser is also non-lethal, so the issue is whether lethal force was necessary then. They knew he was drunk. In any case, he was asleep in his car.

Anyway, if it were you, my opinion wouldn't change. His life matters just as much as the cop's. "All lives matter" right?
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:17 pm

Ah, Blue Lives Matter, the perfect embodiment of American racist authoritarianism. If even my old best buddy who is the president of a police union could admit that these killings are wrong, the police have systemic problems, and things need to change from the ground up, why can't non-cop bootlickers?

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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:37 pm

It's social training. When there was slavery, Douglass argued that there were two sides. However, he said, "Every man knows that slavery is not right, for him." Iow, if someone looks at it from a white/black or blue/black perspective, he won't be able to judge the event. Race or police status have no effect on the morality of an action.

People are in the streets because, and only because, they see things they don't think are right. Ya know, I rode my bike to Brooklyn today, and I happened to stop on a corner in Chinatown. There was ONE lone middle-aged Chinese woman standing by herself holding Black Lives Matter sign. I pointed to her and mouthed "You too," through my mask. It wasn't a march; she was just standing by herself. I won't forget that anytime soon.

Anyway, back to justifiable killing or "killology" as it's called.
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Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:00 pm

Sure, it's social training. But, as you point out, not everyone thinks, feels, or acts the same. So, I don't excuse people who excuse extrajudicial murder because they feel some perverse need to live under an authoritarian state while simultaneously claiming that they are standing for "freedom." It's bullshit.

Where do you see the American flags (corrupted and not) flying?
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