Does Chauvin have a defence?

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Steve James on Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:25 am

Ian, all I am concerned about is the fact that a man was shot twice in the back while running away. I have no illusions about the arguments that justify it. I am familiar with American logic concerning freedom and liberty as opposed to truth and justice. Stevie Wonder could see it.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19272
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:53 am

Steve James wrote:Both were about the Wendy's guy. It was the cop's taser, and the man had already been tased several times.
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that a taser doesn't travel as far as a bullet. The taser is also non-lethal, so the issue is whether lethal force was necessary then. They knew he was drunk. In any case, he was asleep in his car.

Anyway, if it were you, my opinion wouldn't change. His life matters just as much as the cop's. "All lives matter" right?

Who got shot first hand by the taser(was it a taser gun?), the police or the guy that got shot/killed by the police ?
If a taser gun, can such be fired several times ? Isn’t such a weapon projectiling an needle connected to an quite long copper thread, have such a weapon several rounds or can it be quickly reloaded ?
Last edited by Trick on Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3529
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:44 pm

Trick wrote:
Steve James wrote:Both were about the Wendy's guy. It was the cop's taser, and the man had already been tased several times.
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that a taser doesn't travel as far as a bullet. The taser is also non-lethal, so the issue is whether lethal force was necessary then. They knew he was drunk. In any case, he was asleep in his car.

Anyway, if it were you, my opinion wouldn't change. His life matters just as much as the cop's. "All lives matter" right?

Who got shot first hand by the taser(was it a taser gun?), the police or the guy that got shot/killed by the police ?
If a taser gun, can such be fired several times ? Isn’t such a weapon projectiling an needle connected to an quite long copper thread, have such a weapon several rounds or can it be quickly reloaded ?


No, it can only be fired once, but can still be used as a handheld taser in melee.
文武両道。

Lord Li requires one hundred gold coins per day!
User avatar
Ian C. Kuzushi
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Trick on Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:15 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Trick wrote:
Steve James wrote:Both were about the Wendy's guy. It was the cop's taser, and the man had already been tased several times.
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that a taser doesn't travel as far as a bullet. The taser is also non-lethal, so the issue is whether lethal force was necessary then. They knew he was drunk. In any case, he was asleep in his car.

Anyway, if it were you, my opinion wouldn't change. His life matters just as much as the cop's. "All lives matter" right?

Who got shot first hand by the taser(was it a taser gun?), the police or the guy that got shot/killed by the police ?
If a taser gun, can such be fired several times ? Isn’t such a weapon projectiling an needle connected to an quite long copper thread, have such a weapon several rounds or can it be quickly reloaded ?


No, it can only be fired once, but can still be used as a handheld taser in melee.

Ok, so was it fired by the police, or was it still loaded when it was taken from them ?.....Ok, edit here. I read t previous post that it was still loaded wen it was taken from the police
Last edited by Trick on Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3529
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Trick on Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:30 am

If one is hit by such a projectile shot from a taser would one the easily drop anything held on ones hands, a gun for example? Could it be potentially lethal if hit in the head/face ?
Last edited by Trick on Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3529
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby LaoDan on Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:18 am


I do not know how factual the stated “facts” are, but that is something that can be left to the lawyers. My un-researched responses from my skeptical mind give the following:
“Fact” 1: I did not see any instruments being used that could measure one’s cardiopulmonary distress level. How was this determined? Almost anyone being arrested would be subject to some level of psychological distress, so how was a level relevant to applying the knee on his neck determined? Is this just a vague diagnosis that aids officers in justifying even inappropriate actions?
“Fact” 2: He was already in handcuffs, how “dangerous” was his resistance to those officers. Why couldn’t de-escalation have been used rather than using dominance?
“Fact” 3: Since he was already in handcuffs, how much of a threat was he even if he suffered from “ExDS”? Was it really an “extreme” threat? Are the officers properly trained to psychologically evaluate a subject in order to diagnose him as having ExDS? Is this just a vague symptom that aids officers in justifying even inappropriate actions?
“Fact” 4: Do the regulations really require the restraint to continue until paramedics arrive, even when the restraint leads to unconsciousness??? What about if the detained person dies, does the restraint need to continue until paramedics arrive? Why is such poorly conceived regulation not questioned and revised?
“Fact” 5: The officers had not known the results of the autopsy while they were restraining him, and their actions should not be excused simply because it probably would have been nonlethal if used against a healthy individual. The mention of a “potentially lethal dose of fentanyl” is not really relevant because he did not die from fentanyl overdose, he dies from asphyxiation!
“Fact” 6: As above, the officer’s actions should not be excused simply because it probably would have been nonlethal if used against a healthy individual. Were they so poorly trained that they could not recognize physical distress even when the suspect directly told them that he was suffering from physical distress? Are officers taught to ignore their prisoners or suspects?

Why do readers believe this writer when he states that he is presenting “facts”? I do not know him, but I suspect that he is NOT simply trying to objectively present information; he is more likely propagandizing for some reason. I personally do not trust his objectivity.
LaoDan
Huajing
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 11:51 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Steve James on Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:27 am

I think that if the officers had just called the drunk guy a cab, or driven him home and had his car towed. It wasn't a traffic stop; he wasn't endangering people on the highway. I was taught that if I thought I couldn't drive I should pull over.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19272
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Bill on Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:16 pm

Steve
He was asleep at the wheel of his car, blocking the drive through lane at Wendy' s. He also blew over 0.10 so I think that makes it an automatic DUI arrest.
Last edited by Bill on Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It hurts when I Pi
User avatar
Bill
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5365
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:00 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:18 pm

He was also a convicted felon on probation, which is probably why he resisted arrest. He also got sent up initially for beating his children. He knew he was going back to the big house if he got arrested for a DUI. And people who abuse kids don't do well there.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... d-DUI.html
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Steve James on Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:35 pm

I don't think being drunk violates probation. Being arrested probably would, but my point was that it wasn't necessary to do so. There was a choice, and I don't think what he did before the struggle warranted arrest.

Afa his record, it doesn't matter when it comes to the actions of the officer. If you want to say that the "non-lethal" taser was a threat to the officer. OK. You could argue that he should act that way no matter who it is. I disagree.

If the guy got the gun and the officer had the taser, I don't think it'd matter if the officer had been cited for police brutality. Anyway, there's always going to a rationale. "He was a bad guy" is not an argument.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19272
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:09 pm

A DUI is most definitely a probation violation. I’m unaware of anywhere it is not.

His dying this way may not be deserved, but is very predictable.

Deserved may be debatable.

The fact that a lifetime of bad behavior on the part of the guy who got shot resulted in this is not. The only lesson here is don’t drive drunk while on probation and don’t resist arrest if you do.
Last edited by Peacedog on Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:06 pm

It's really crazy (to me) and hard to enforce, but being drunk is not allowed while on parole and certain types of probation.
文武両道。

Lord Li requires one hundred gold coins per day!
User avatar
Ian C. Kuzushi
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby phil b on Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:31 pm

I was under the impression that a tazer is considerd a less lethal weapon. I may be mistaken, but I think in the UK they are considered as a firearm.

What is strange to me is that the media discussion seems to focus on what happened before the individual resisted arrest. Yes, up to that point, it was all pretty civil, but once you resist arrest, strike an officer, steal a tazer, try to flee the scene, and then turn and discharge a weapon in the direction of an armed officer, you have a problem. Regardless of what happened before the officer decided to arrest the individual, the actions that followed are the issue.
Just your average office worker :p
phil b
Anjing
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:05 am

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby GrahamB on Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:43 pm

To people peddling this idea that, 'oh, it's ok to shoot/kill people unnecessarily if they have a history of being bad people' -

Yeah, I see you. We all do.
The NHS is not drained by migrants, but sustained by them.
Heretics podcast | The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 12314
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Does Chauvin have a defence?

Postby windwalker on Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:44 pm

Under Georgia law, a taser is considered a deadly weapon.

Bond for each of the officers is set at $10,000, and the officers have until June 5 to turn themselves in, Howard said. Gardner and Streeter were both fired from the Atlanta Police Department on Sunday. Howard said he was unsure how long the officers would serve if convicted, but he guessed that, if sentenced, they would serve between five and eight years.


https://heavy.com/news/2020/06/atlanta- ... ght-on-tv/


Taser “is classified as a ‘non-lethal’ weapon,” Haas said. He was using a term the company employed to describe its signature product until the mid-2000s, when it transitioned to “less-lethal.”


https://in.reuters.com/article/usa-tase ... NKCN1B317E
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8317
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

PreviousNext

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests