Statues and symbols

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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby everything on Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:40 am

Farming in one area can cause issues if export prices are much better than domestic prices since then the domestic market cannot afford that good. It's interesting from an "economics" point of view - Steve points out "economy" is about people, though - if this trade overall helps the world, is it good? Or just exacerbating have/have not? Maybe it depends on the particular market.
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:31 am

Steve James wrote:How is sugar produced now in Sweden? I don't know anything about beet production, is it still done in Sweden the same way?

beet production is still around in sweden, but (this i had to look up, havent lived in sweden for many years now)in the last ten years production has been going down significantly.......And this is my own theory about that 'its probably due to the strong anti sugar stance thats been taken at least in the western world during the last two decades or so' ? for example in sweden theres a lively debate on whether or not to put on an heavy sugar taxation, something that is already at work in norway.....Maybe this too eventually will hit the sugarcane production in the americas ?
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:58 am

Sugar production in the Americas is still basically slave labor. That's why it's so cheap. Much too long a story. But, the symbol is the machete.
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Giles on Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:42 am

Here's a commemorative statue of a very different nature. One I like very much and that I walk by every month or so (and that has actually teared me up a couple of times).
Illustrates that historical statues don't have to be boastful, don't have to commemorate heroic deeds or rich, powerful people.

Image

Image


I've lifted the text from someone's blog (source: https://moonchild09.wordpress.com/2013/ ... ichstrase/) because I think it gives a good description:

Evening in Berlin comes with shades of melancholy. Not the ideal mood for your first day in such a beautiful city. But I suppose that is the problem. Beneath this city’s charm, there is a shadow, a dark history that blankets my heart, me a foreigner, coming years after the worst of it. Footprints of this history are all over the city; monuments, historical sites, structures. Mementos of dark times gone.
Not far from my hotel on Friedrichstrasse, there is one such monument that has engraved itself on my mind. I had arrived earlier in the day and my new friend, Boris took me round to see Berlin and that was when I saw it. A haunting memorial titled “Train to Life-Train to death”. It is just beside the Friedrichstraße Train Station and features the statues of some children, five of them cast in a gloomy shade, heading off to concentration camps, and another two, going in the opposite direction. These ones, cast in ruddy hues, were the ones who got away, those who escaped the Nazi massacres and made it across to England by train shortly before the outbreak of WWII. The unfortunate ones were gassed; their lives and their dreams lost forever.
This memorial for a tragedy that occurred decades before and ended when Hitler and his armies were defeated in 1945 is haunting enough. But some people, in remembrance of what had happened, had tucked flowers into the crook of the arms of this statues, both the ones who got away and the ones who didn’t. There were flowers also on the pedestal as well. And in Berlin’s mild sun, the flowers were wilting, as I imagined the hopes of those children put on those trains to their deaths must have wilted decades before.
It was important for me to note, even after all these years, after generations have passed, that these children are being remembered and acknowledged, (and the role the railway played in this tragedy). They are commemorated not just with statues, incidentally designed by Frank Meisler, one of those who escaped the holocaust, but by people, generations after, who make the effort to bring flowers, to say, in their own way, that we know these things happened 70 years ago and we will not forget.
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:32 am

Ah, a statue to remember history as opposed to a hero. There are plenty of ideas and plenty of history to remember.

A statue commemorating the Trail of Tears is more historical than a statue of Andrew Jackson.
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:50 pm

Giles wrote:Here's a commemorative statue of a very different nature. One I like very much and that I walk by every month or so (and that has actually teared me up a couple of times).
Illustrates that historical statues don't have to be boastful, don't have to commemorate heroic deeds or rich, powerful people.

Yes that might actually be the main purpose of statues/symbols, to bring forth an “desired” emotion among the onlookers.

Statues like that in your post, make onlookers more directly to reflect on the evils that man is capable of. They doesn’t bring forth direct empowering emotions, but instead emotions of “tears”...wich might also be in some way empowering ?
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Giles on Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:10 am

I think I know what you mean, Trick. However, for me the statue (or group) doesn't really shout at us, doesn't say "This is what you must think and feel!" It is quite subdued and fairly realistic in its depiction of the children. Empathetic, sure, but not pumping the pathos. And so I find myself imagining possible stories before and after this moment. In my opinion, this actually makes the monument stronger, because it is more restrained.
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:49 am

As a work of art, the best thing a statue can elicit is a discussion about the subject and the way it makes the viewer feel.
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:23 am

Public statues I’ll guess are commissioned by the City they are to stand in, so they follow an agenda other than just being something out of an artists creative mind ?
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:54 am

Statues in front of public buildings are commissioned by politicians and executed by artists. Neither the politician or the artist need to agree on the final product, and neither determines the public's reaction. You and I are the public. The politicians and artists may be long dead.

Example: what does this statue "say' or what emotion does it want the viewer to "feel"? This is the statue in front of our Museum of Natural History.
Image
https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1602228/ ... 525651348f

In front of the Museo del Hombre Dominicano (similar to our museum), there are these three statues.
Image
https://elsouvenir.com/wp-content/uploa ... nicano.jpg

Since statues "say" something, what do you think our statue says about the subject and the subjects? If they are supposed to elicit emotions, what feelings do you have, or what feelings do you think the artists or politicians want to evoke?
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:52 am

The old priest stand t front, the two younger physically fit non Europeans stand in behind, “as in his shadow”. Think the sports Prize pofium,the one on the top is the winner.......the sublim message/meaning might be - no matter what anyone might think, the old guy in front is the master?........Or it’s just three statues representing stages in the American history ?
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:22 am

Well, there are two images. One in NYC. The other is in the Dominican Republic. The NYC museum has decided to remove its statue. Yep, it's about the stories they tell and what they commemorate. However, it's easy to say they're history. That's not close to the truth, especially if the viewer can't read the image. Comparing the statues also tells a story.
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:00 am

Steve James wrote:Well, there are two images. One in NYC. The other is in the Dominican Republic. The NYC museum has decided to remove its statue. Yep, it's about the stories they tell and what they commemorate. However, it's easy to say they're history. That's not close to the truth, especially if the viewer can't read the image. Comparing the statues also tells a story.

one of the images(new york) does not open on my device...........Yes, as i was trying to say(how i believe) many public statues have more to them than what first hit the mind among most peoples, there might be sublime meanings to the symbols that are subconsiusly registrated by the viewers, the intention behind vary .......sometimes a statue/monument sole purpose is quote obvious(or maybe not 8-) ) swedish artist Reutersvärds knotted gun is a world wide known "non violence" symbol, however it doesnt seem to inspire as intended. since it was set up in my hometown in sweden gun violence that had up till then basically been non excistent took on and has escalated
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:53 pm

I was hoping you would compare the two images. Here's another of the NYC statue. Hope you can see it.
Image
https://miro.medium.com/max/636/1*79n84 ... f8upsA.png
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Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:44 pm

Steve James wrote:I was hoping you would compare the two images. Here's another of the NYC statue. Hope you can see it.
Image
https://miro.medium.com/max/636/1*79n84 ... f8upsA.png

Neither that link could open, but I googled, it’s about the Theodore Roosevelt statue ?. ...Yes, it gives of an provocative message indeed.

I don’t know what it’s original official “message” to the public was/is, but I do believe one intention behind it was/is - ‘look here, and you see who’s the supreme ruler of this nation’.......now, one can speculate if it’s solely about race or if there is another angle to who are the “supreme ruler(s)”
Last edited by Trick on Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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