Statues and symbols

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:21 am

but no you are wrong, im not stuck in colors, dont push that upon me...


Don't gaslight me. When you talk about BLM and race, you mean white, black "races." You freely push the connection between people with BLM signs and whatever you like. You tell everyone what you think they want or mean. If I say that the reason they are carrying BLM signs is because they're protesting police brutality, why doesn't that sink in? There weren't those big protests during the pandemic before Floyd's killing. The anti-statue stuff came up later. Destruction of Columbus and Conquistador statues was not started by BLM. It was by people who would be best described as believing that Red Lives Matter. Columbus didn't hurt or enslave Africans.

Now, afa Confederate statues, people have been criticizing them since they were built. Most were put up after WW2. And, people of African descent in Belgium sure would want the statues of Leopold 2 pulled down. They know his history. However, they're not part of some global association. So, it's not hard for me to understand why someone, somewhere would want to knock down Gandhi's statue. I'm just not naive enough to label it or them as part of a BLM movement.

Anyway, say there's a European "race." But, if you use Caucasian, like in the books, a lot of that race isn't "white" at all. I posted a link to the Supreme Court case, but you didn't see it. I also pointed out that people who are considered in the White "race" now weren't considered so, even in the last century. It was absolutely racial, but had nothing to do with "black." That's history.

Giles put up a shot of a memorial. It had everything to do with European "Race" and nothing to do with the USAmerican version. My point is that looking at this statue from the perspective of "race" is useless. Actually, it's dehumanizing.
Image
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5F27B2B7
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19359
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:50 pm

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:BLM Sweden chapter kind of accuse Sweden to have stolen the Sami people’s land(north Sweden) and by that it somehow shows how Swedes have had an racist mindset for a very long time and still have(i personally find it a little hard to get any logic out of that; but they might be right ?)


About their land I know too little about. But I do believe that many Swedes still have a racist mindset towards the Sami. There are many people who believe that they "always" let their reindeers walk on the railroads or have other "accidents" because they can get quick money from insurances. So there's surely a racist attitude towards them.

Also remember that Sweden was very well known for its nationalism in the beginning of the 20th century and that Sweden was world leading country in race research / scientific racism. Swedes look on themselves and Swedes as very open minded and progressive. I myself find many common Swedes narrow minded, racist and ridiculously confident. They are a bit afraid to be regarded as politically incorrect, but as soon any kind of racism fits into a political agenda, it's more than ok to be racist.
That very much sounds as isolated local incidents, based on some local disputes not related to racism.
I find it really hard to believe there in Götaland, Halland, Småland, Skåne, or your own provincial region Svealand...and so on...can be found any racial mindset toward the Sami people.(also if we now should talk colors, lots of Sami are blond and blue eyed, they’re no different from lots of other Swedes)
And where’s the “racism” in that they are getting payed by insurance company for lost livestock? They are probably insured by an nationwide insurance firm, treating all farmers alike......No there is no “Swedish” racism toward the Sami today, I’m sure of it.

As for racism in general in Sweden has escalated I don’t know much about(in 15 years now I’ve only been back there for one month)
When I grew up in the 1970’s, and then later in the 1980-90’s I didn’t see or experience any direct racism from “ethnic”Swedes toward any ethnic minorities or immigrants. However among some immigrant groups especially i heard of quite outspoken racist stances being taken, maybe that has become worse in the last 15 years, and perhaps an younger generation of local Swedes has taken up this too....?
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:54 pm

Steve James wrote:Yeah, it's interesting that Uppsala has some of the most extensive genetics research labs. Then again, I think it's common for people to want to scientifically research themselves in order to show their difference.

I know nothing about Uppsala university’s labs, but find it very very hard to believe there’s research with an agenda with the aim to find an human master race going on....where did you get that from?
As I’ve said before I do like conspiracy theories, but this one have a hard time to fit my tinfoil hat....
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:00 am

Steve James wrote:
but no you are wrong, im not stuck in colors, dont push that upon me...


Don't gaslight me. When you talk about BLM and race, you mean white, black "races." You freely push the connection between people with BLM signs and whatever you like. You tell everyone what you think they want or mean.

stop twisting this thing, I’m not pushing any connection to race, your OP does that I just followed. I don’t tell everyone what I think issues in this question means, I report what I had read primarily in Swedis news....Don’t gaslight me
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Bao on Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:46 am

Trick wrote:I find it really hard to believe there in Götaland, Halland, Småland, Skåne, or your own provincial region Svealand...and so on...can be found any racial mindset toward the Sami people ... No there is no “Swedish” racism toward the Sami today, I’m sure of it.


No, you need to go up further north to feel the tensions and the attitudes. In the rest of the country, no one cares.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7543
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:59 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:I find it really hard to believe there in Götaland, Halland, Småland, Skåne, or your own provincial region Svealand...and so on...can be found any racial mindset toward the Sami people ... No there is no “Swedish” racism toward the Sami today, I’m sure of it.


No, you need to go up further north to feel the tensions and the attitudes. In the rest of the country, no one cares.

Yes, quite far up in the north of Sweden, but even up there I doubt it actually has anything to do with racism, it’s quite impossible to tell who belongs to what group if they’re not wearing any traditional outfits, and one does not have to be an Sami to be an reindeer “cowboy”....any issues up there might be cultural related, nothing about race
Last edited by Trick on Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:18 am

I know nothing about Uppsala university’s labs, but find it very very hard to believe there’s research with an agenda with the aim to find an human master race going on....where did you get that from?
As I’ve said before I do like conspiracy theories, but this one have a hard time to fit my tinfoil hat....


Never said the Swedes were looking for a master race. No serious geneticists are doing that anymore. But you can look up the Uppsala lab on your own.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19359
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 am

[/quote] stop twisting this thing, I’m not pushing any connection to race, your OP does that I just followed. I don’t tell everyone what I think issues in this question means, I report what I had read primarily in Swedis news....Don’t gaslight me[/quote]

You should tell everyone what you think. If you post the Swedish news, I assume you do so to make your point. If not, there's no sense to post or respond.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19359
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:06 am

Steve James wrote:
stop twisting this thing, I’m not pushing any connection to race, your OP does that I just followed. I don’t tell everyone what I think issues in this question means, I report what I had read primarily in Swedis news....Don’t gaslight me[/quote]

You should tell everyone what you think. If you post the Swedish news, I assume you do so to make your point. If not, there's no sense to post or respond.[/quote]
. And, like you said, plenty of Swedes were enslaved by other Swedes.
and where did you get that from, I never said such a thing, . You twist and turn things to make one think -‘did I really say that?’ . Man, who’s the gaslighter ? If the things I’ve posted here are proven facts, then how can one disagree ? And note, I’m not posting any radical views here in this thread, cause I have no radical views of the matter. Is it an radical view to say that BLM is an major force in the current statues and symbol criticism? Yes originally as you said the Organisation rallied against police brutality, but escalated quick into criticism of symbols, everyone see this, it’s in the news........my personal view, about statues in America if they’re going down, -well let them go down.....Police brutality = if civil order is disturbed, then police are there to act accordingly, if police unprovoked take to violence then of cours it’s wrong.. So that’s my view, no I’m gonna continue to comment on things that seem not to fit with info I hve gotten elsewhere from what I believe are reliable sources
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:10 am

You didn't say that there were Swedes who were forced to work in Sweden?
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19359
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:14 am

Trick wrote:the thread is about statues and symbols and slavery in the Americas (?) anyway, i again take my freedom to break in with some swedish matters, the one of African slaves in sweden.although slavedom had been abolished in the mid of 1300 it happened later on that african slaves ended up in Sweden - here is the story of Gustav Badin http://www.badinsecret.com/the-real-badin.html
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19359
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:16 am

Trick wrote:about plantations....During Gustav Badins life sweden had an big agricultural reform from several small scale farms changing into bigger more structured farms, an attempt to meet the ever growing food demand for an rapidly growing population.....i dont know if such big farms could be compared to what an plantation in the US was....however with this a new class of labour was established out of the lower class, the new lower class was named 'Statare' which ment they where 'payed in food and housing' for their work on these new farms......They where hired for a one year term only during which the farm owner held absolut control and power over them, ..from early on in the late 1700 and troughout the 1800 a 'Statare' lived under very poor conditions, the housings provided for them was basically shacks and the food ransoning to them where meager work days long and hard....not untill tje early 1900 conditions for the life of a statare became a little better..however they where not subjected to the same workers rights labourers in the industry had, for example 8h work days....not untill 1944 the Statare class was abolished........Statare was not sold or given ad commodities so they where not slaves, but from written accounts about their living standars and the absolut pover their employer (farm owner)had over them, maybe one could compare it with a slaves life on an plantation in the US ?
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19359
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:09 pm

. Thread starter wrote- And, like you said, plenty of Swedes were enslaved by other Swedes.
. Trick wrote - Statare was not sold or given ad commodities so they where not slaves,
Last edited by Trick on Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby vadaga on Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:46 am

Steve James wrote:SNIP
I know Norwegians who are more prejudiced against the Finns (because they supposedly always carry knives) SNIP

On that subject, there is plenty of info out there on 'Norwegianization' efforts that were carried out between around 1850 and the early 1980s on Norwegian Finns (called 'Kven') and Sámi in Norway which involved among other things the forced sending of children to Norwegian-speaking boarding schools where they were forced to speak Norwegian and forbidden from other languages, etc. The current king apologised for this to the Sami Congress in 1997 about this and Sámi is now one of the official languages of Norway since the late 1980s in regions where there are relatively higher populations of Sámi people.
Last edited by vadaga on Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
善人和气一团
User avatar
vadaga
Wuji
 
Posts: 896
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:53 am
Location: 地球

Re: Statues and symbols

Postby Steve James on Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:43 am

Yeah, it's happened everywhere. It's better to look at it from the perspective of ethnicity instead of black and white, which becomes tiring.

Hey, the Supreme Court has declared half of Oklahoma belongs to the Natives. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53358330
And, before the claims that it's giving anything back, the fact is that the Constitution makes treaties national law. It says so specifically.
Article Six: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby"
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19359
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

PreviousNext

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests