China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:18 pm

Nah.

You are confusing multi-ethnic, which does work, with multi-cultural which does not work over time.

The Bhutanese are industrialized. They fly airplanes, have central power, factories, etc. They are, however, very poor. Their highly limited tourism industry is based off of a very real need to prevent cultural overwhelm from the outside due to the tiny size of their population.

As for alternative to multiculturalism look at Japan, Korea, Singapore, Thailand, anywhere in Latin America and soon to be most European countries as they aggressively deport those groups who refuse to assimilate over the next 20-25 years. In all of those other countries you either follow the predominant cultural narrative or get the hell out.

Pretty much the only place multiculturalism has been tried is the West and it has been a dismal failure.

As for major cities and struggle the $500M USD, and counting, price tag from Antifa based rioting in urban areas would beg to differ with that opinion and it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Again the struggle is cultural. Socialism is not compatible with elected government and free markets. Because elected governments with a free market economy are okay with differences of opinion on things within certain bounds while socialists are not. It's why the violence is happening in the first place.

As many people here are about to find out, you can never be ideologically pure enough to survive the socialist purge. Virtue signal all you want, but sooner or later cancel culture comes for everyone. It's a feature, not a bug, within socialism. Since power cannot change hands via peaceful means it comes from the barrel of a gun and socially discrediting people is always the first step. As a good friend once said, "it always starts with some layabout loser like Marx screaming about the people and free stuff and ends with Beria begging for his life as he gets executed on a concrete floor in the basement by some nameless thug."
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Steve James on Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:05 pm

I dunno. Is "American" food part of its culture? In a country with many ethnicities (though ethnicities are usually defined as a group of people who share a national identity and culture) ... anyway, in a country with many ethnicities, do they all share a culture, really? For examples, Jews, Italians and Chinese in NY/USA. Do they share the same culture? Is NY multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, and how exactly would it be different if it weren't?

Frankly, I'd say that 99% of the people who live here --and in the 50 states-- share the same American culture which is (and always has been) multi-ethnic. And, in NY, I'd say that there is almost nothing an immigrant from anywhere in the world can't find a restaurant serving to most ethnicities. Pizza --over the long term-- has become as American as apple pie. In fact, name some ethnically "American" foods.

I don't think this has anything to do with socialism. I know there have always been complaints about "ethnic" studies. Hey, I'm down for examining American ethnicity. Go for it. I don't think it's anything like the Chinese version/s.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:26 pm

No, you are wrong. Your take on multiculturalism, that different cultures cannot, in the end, thrive together without assimilating is Richard Spencer's core argument. It's an ultranationalist argument, and, coming from a white guy, it's a white nationalist argument.

Bhutan's economy is based on agriculture and forestry, not industry. They are now branching into green energy, but that's not the same as industrialization. They also have the happiest population in the world. I've been there, it's not an industrialized nation. Why do you think that they need to have limited tourism to avoid being taken over from the outside? You realize they are one of the only places on earth never to be colonized, yes? They have been around for quite a while.

Do you just type whatever comes into your head?

I'm also just not sure what you are talking about re Japan. There are huge zainichi communities that have lived there for decades with their own schools, restaurants, neighborhoods, and networks--and Japan is increasing immigration, not the other way around.

Brazil, huge Japanese communities that still speak Japanese, etc.

As usual, you just don't seem to know what you are typing about.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Steve James on Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:51 pm

With regard to Tibet, the PRC is assimilating it. In this case exerting its dominance (including cultural aspects, such as language, etc) over the people. That's not the idea of assimilation in the US, which has assimilated every immigrant group. Cultural assimilation and cultural dominance are not the same processes. One is adopted, and one is imposed. In the US, multi-cultural means that Americans study Asian martial arts. And, multiculturality is inevitable in any marriage between an Asian and an American. Just sayin'
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:59 pm

Comrad Ian,

Meh.

I've already said it has nothing to do with race. Those are your words not mine.

Latin America is a classic case in point. You can take your choice of race there. But Anderson Silva would look at you like you were crazy if you told him he wasn't Latino.

The Bhutanese drive cars, use Western medicine and have electricity. They are by default industrialized even if they have little industry of their own.

Granted, anytime someone starts throwing around the white nationalist canard I know I've won the argument.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:11 pm

That's laughable. You are the one calling me comrade on a thread where I am condemning the CCP. None too bright.

If Bhutan is an industrial nation, then there are no nations that are not industrial. Again, none too bright.

I'm not the one making it about race, you are. You just aren't willing to take your own logic to its natural conclusion. Your words are exactly the words used by Spencer. Verbatim.

And, I don't see what your point about Silva is even trying to convey. It makes no sense. But, you dodged my clear refutation of your claims which included a multiethnic Brazil.

You might as well go back to telling stories about using your psychic energies to control women. It would be about as convincing.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:29 pm

Since there is some really confused thinking going on here (not to mention some really embarrassing hypocrisy), a few notes:

Industrialized Nation Definition

In contrast, the industrialized nation definition requires a diversified economy with a nationwide industrial base. If one sector of the economy fares poorly in a given year, season or quarter, gains in other sectors prevent economic collapse. Strong, diversified economies create consumer confidence, and confident consumers purchase goods and services commensurate with their personal wealth and national economic well-being.


Nope, not Bhutan.

eth·nic·i·ty
/eTHˈnisədē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: ethnicity; plural noun: ethnicities

the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.


Hmm, if one is going to try and differentiate "ethnic group" from "cultural group," they better clarify exactly what they mean.

Of course, right-wingers prefer to talk in generalities, vagarities, and binary terms. Very simple but never accurate.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:56 pm

Actually, you just need a better dictionary.

Ethnicity has a racial component. Culture may or may depending on the context.


From the Cambridge Dictionary

ethnicity
noun [ C or U ]
UK /eθˈnɪs.ə.ti/ US /eθˈnɪs.ə.t̬i/

a particular race of people, or the fact of being from a particular race of people

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... /ethnicity
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:37 pm

Sorry to one up you again, but if you are looking for the best Oxidental dictionary, that would be the OED.

Brit. /ɛθˈnɪsᵻti/
, U.S. /ɛθˈnɪsədi/
Frequency (in current use):
Origin: Formed within English, by derivation. Etymons: ethnic adj., -ity suffix.
Etymology: < ethnic adj. + -ity suffix.

In sense 1 after Spanish †etnicidad... (Show More)
Thesaurus »
Categories »

†1. Paganism, heathen superstition. Obsolete. rare.
1772 T. Nugent tr. J. F. de Isla Hist. Friar Gerund I. 332 From the curling spume of the celebrated Egean waves fabulous ethnicity [Sp. etnicidad] feigned Venus their idolatress conceived.

(Hide quotations)

Thesaurus »

2. Status in respect of membership of a group regarded as ultimately of common descent, or having a common national or cultural tradition; ethnic character.
1920 I. B. Berkson Theories of Americanization ii. 89 To regard every individual of an ethnic group as having primarily the characteristic nature of that group, as if affiliation with it invested him with a particular kind of ethnicity..is contrary to the doctrine that each individual structure is primary.
1953 D. Riesman in Amer. Scholar 23 i. 15 The groups who, by reason of rural or small-town location, ethnicity, or other parochialism, feel threatened by the better educated upper-middle-class people.
1964 P. Worsley in I. L. Horowitz New Sociol. 384 Existing barriers of ethnicity imported into office.
2010 J. Bieber Soweto 13/1 Although almost every Sowetan speaks all black South African languages, the issue of ethnicity was one of the biggest problems that we faced.


edit: note that race does not play a role in any of the sample sentences. Oof.
Last edited by Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:34 pm

Meh.

Again you are using a narrow definition that is not universally supported.

Nitpicking doesn't win the argument.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Steve James on Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:47 pm

Peacedog wrote:Actually, you just need a better dictionary.

Ethnicity has a racial component. Culture may or may depending on the context.


From the Cambridge Dictionary

ethnicity
noun [ C or U ]
UK /eθˈnɪs.ə.ti/ US /eθˈnɪs.ə.t̬i/

a particular race of people, or the fact of being from a particular race of people

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... /ethnicity


Oh, but you said multi-ethnic societies work, but multi-cultural societies don't. See, here I'd have to say that there's no such thing as "Race" in any scientific sense, specifically when "races" intermarry and have offspring. It just leads to stupid questions like "If a Black woman has children with a German man, what ethnicity is the child." That's just a dumb question. If the child grows up in Germany, speaking German, she'll be ethnically German. That is, except to people who believe in a "pure" race.

Anyway, I'd still like to know what USAmerican ethnicity is, but I guess it must has a racial component too. I know lots of people believe that, but they're just substituting race for ethnicity and pretending they're the same thing. It doesn't matter that people of the same ethnicity speak the same language, eta the same food, celebrate the same holidays, etc. Well, that's the thing, too. If "race" somehow defines ethnicity, Black people are just White people with tans. And, as soon as any Black person goes to the Haiti, Cuba or Africa, they know right away that they aren't Haitian, Cuban, or African. Likewise, no White American goes to France and is considered ethnically French. Italian Americans are definitely not Italian.

Anyway, cool. It's still worthwhile to teach people the history of their ethnicities, especially when they're sitting in the classroom. And, there are many cultures in the US. I agree that everybody should be able to speak English, and follow the same laws. That's about it. I have nothing against Passover Seders or rain dances. This is America, land of the .. free.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:55 pm

Except race does exist as can easily be determined by DNA testing.

The idea that race doesn't exist is a Social Justice Warrior talking point that it isn't true. The same jokers argue there is no such thing as sex, or gender, I can never get that one straight as I don't take their ideology seriously enough to care.

In medicine many examples exist as to the reality of race.

You give calcium channel blockers to black people for controlling hypertension, because ACE inhibitors don't work.

Only black people, or mixed race people with black heritage, can have Sickle Cell Anemia.

Black people use different pulmonary function charts and glomerular filtration rate calculations as their numbers are significantly different than other groups.

Ashkenazi Jews have a variety of genetic disorders that only apply to them.

And those are just a few examples I can think of off the top of my head.

Any time medical practitioners move into areas with specific ethnicities they have to end up getting smart on those genetically specific diseases that occur.

Mixed race people are a whole other issue and it is an important one in the case medicine for American blacks as most are mixed race to one degree or another.
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Trick on Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:42 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Trick wrote:
.I don't know anyone who thinks that Tibet was some sort of paradise.
. Actually that’s probably what most believe, that it was some sort of peaceful paradise...they are led to believe that, by people who spread lies about china


I know a lot of people .
Yes, that is good that you know alot of people, and that could probably mean “most” people, if so then you are right....
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Trick on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:29 pm

Peacedog wrote:


The reason why Tibetans don't want to be part of Chinese society is that they understand what this means: the complete and utter destruction of their cultural identity over time.
Q2: Who extinguishes Tibetan culture?

In November 2011, the 14th Dalai Lama acclaimed in Japan that the reason for Tibetan monks' self-immolations was "China's policy on extinguishing Tibetan culture".
As to "Tibetan culture", the Dalai Lama follows such a logic: Tibetan culture is the culture of Tibetan Buddhism, the culture of Tibetan Buddhism is the culture of the Gelug Sect (the yellow sect of Tibetan Buddhism, and the sect of the Dalai Lama) while the Dalai Lama has the final speaking in the Gelug Sect.
In other words, anything that goes against the Dalai Lama is regarded by him as "extirpation of Tibetan culture". What a ridiculous idea! The Dalai Lama still treats himself as the serf owner, Tibet as his property and Tibetan people as his slaves.
A scholar has pointed out that the so-called "extinguished Tibetan culture" refers to the absolute privilege of the religious figures. In the Dalai Lama's eyes, the fact that common Tibetans master the culture would violate the stiff hierarchy of theocracy.
In fact, Tibetan culture consists of not only religious culture but also folk culture, not only traditional culture but also modern culture, not only the culture of the Tibetan ethnic group but also the cultures of other ethnic groups, such as Confucius culture, Mongolian culture and Manchu culture.
The religious culture has never been the only content of Tibetan culture, let alone the "Dalai Lama's culture" or "Gelug culture". The 14th Dalai Lama racks his brains to cheat the world that he develops the whole Tibetan culture if he develops the Gelug culture. What he does is the worst "extirpation of Tibetan culture"!
In the writer's opinion, the Dalai Lama's "extirpation of Tibetan culture" exposes his ugly purpose: he attempts to meet the demand of Tibetan separatists and stir up the Western forces' "impulse to put pressure on China" in order to realize his aim of restoring Tibet's serfdom and dividing China.
. Anyway, multiculti and multi ethnic does exist here in China despite the by far dominant Chinese Han ethnic group......All the “multi” would be minimized considerably in the regions of Xinjiang and Tibet if they were to be separated from China .....
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Re: China tries a Honey Trap to Ensnare me — serpentza

Postby Trick on Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:12 pm

Steve James wrote:With regard to Tibet, the PRC is assimilating it. In this case exerting its dominance (including cultural aspects, such as language, etc) over the people. That's not the idea of assimilation in the US, which has assimilated every immigrant group. Cultural assimilation and cultural dominance are not the same processes. One is adopted, and one is imposed. In the US, multi-cultural means that Americans study Asian martial arts. And, multiculturality is inevitable in any marriage between an Asian and an American. Just sayin'

The PRC is as it stands for, for and by the people of China the whole country.
On individual levels cultures play their part and are let to do so.
You can go and have an delicious pizza or perhaps an hamburger, want it more ‘Hawaiian’ you got that pineapple slice too...Go to your temple, mosque or church as you want, as long it doesn’t puts sticks in the wheels on how the nation as an unity strive forward for the equal betterment of all.
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