nuclear fusion in France

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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Steve James on Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:18 pm

Yeah, modern technology takes a long time before it actually solves basic problems because it's rarely universally distributed. For me, the primary appeal of solar or wind power is that, with technology, I can use them to produce energy for my use. In practical terms today, that means I have a small panel that will charge my phone and a 12v volt lead acid battery that I can use for light and to run a small computer or tiny tv. So, it's for emergencies; but, if they could make solar panels a lot more efficient, I could run more. My building currently has panels connected to the grid.

Achieving fusion may give us free energy, but I doubt that it'll be given away freely or even at less than energy costs now. I would like energy independence. Food independence would be great toe. But, big business doesn't want those things at all. They'll only do what is profitable, and they'll demand to be taxpayer subsidized.
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:32 pm

All great points. This is why I think there has to be a complete overhaul of how we function socially and economically in addition to pushing ahead with sustainable energy (I don't like the term renewable as one of my professors points out, even fossil fuels are renewable on a planetary time scale).

I'm not against nuclear per se, but I think Giles has presented a very reasonable take given the current state of technology and society.
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby vadaga on Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:33 am

everything wrote:I think that makes sense in my experience (scientist father, engineer for nuclear plants FIL, lots of scientist parents of friends, and friends who became scientists or engineers, working mainly with analysts/data scientists and engineers). You definitely want engineers doing the engineering/building and scientists creating the new theories and testing theories. Yup, the working man cannot come up with the ideas or theories or experiments for fusion. But very large scale engineer projects with heavy government involvement from many countries? --- welllll, SpaceX seems to be accomplishing so much as a smaller private entity, let's just say.

I was going to note that engineers in large entities are not immune to scope creep- at least in my company... :-[
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:51 am

I have close friends who are architects. They'll design and build models of fantastic structures that engineers have to figure out how to make structurally sound and live up to building codes. However, building the foundations require hammers, nails, screwdrivers, saws, and pry bars.

So, while working as a carpenter on a job, some screws needed to be installed to hold a structural element together. The problem was that there wasn't enough room to use a screwdriver. This was in a part of the building that would be covered. It'd be possible to do a "murphy" and leave it half done. However, the whole idea of them paying you big bucks was to be a "mechanic" and figure out how to do it.
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:49 am

Oh yes, we cursed the engineers just about every day of the decade I worked construction. They clearly never built the stuff they designed!
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Trick on Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:51 pm

. architects. They'll design and build models of fantastic structures that engineers have to figure out how to make structurally sound and live up to building codes
Architects don’t need some degree/ experience in engineering ?
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:33 am

Architects are artist-designers who have to know something about structural engineering (though there are many other types of engineers). But, in this case, engineers are licensed by the state to ensure that structure will meet or exceed that state's requirements. Bridges are good examples, but so are highways, dams, even spacecraft. An architect will rarely imagine a structure that can't be built. In fact, architects almost ways use physical models. In that sense, they are more like "workers" than engineers.

Large architectural firms always have engineers or hire them; and, someone who's trained as an engineer can always be an architect, too. But, it's the engineers who decide that screws have to go in a certain place. However, it's the worker who has to get a screwdriver in there. That means that he's left to design and engineer a special tool that allows him to do the hundreds of screws/bolts/etc that need to be done. The workers who can do that (often called "key men") are paid more and are always working. You'll find them on every work site.

At one time, there wasn't a clear difference between art and science or religion. Think cathedrals or DaVInci.
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Trick on Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:40 am

. At one time, there wasn't a clear difference between art and science or religion. Think cathedrals or DaVInci.
. Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.
Albert Einstein
and to come back to nuclear science
. I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.: J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Peacedog on Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:03 am

A somewhat dated article on a variety of 4th generation nuclear designs for those unfamiliar with them.

As a practical matter I prefer low pressure modular reactors, but that is just a personal choice.

https://world-nuclear.org/information-l ... ctors.aspx

https://www.world-nuclear.org/informati ... ctors.aspx
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Peacedog on Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:28 am

If a lasting thing this is a huge deal in the US.

The Democratic Party has been the largest roadblock to anything nuclear in US politics for a couple of generations now. If this has changed expect to see many rapid developments in the field over the next decade or so.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryc ... 1088df5829
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby vadaga on Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:17 am

thanks for sharing that article. Interesting development
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Re: nuclear fusion in France

Postby Peacedog on Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:11 am

An interesting article on possible applications of currently unused nuclear materials.

A commonly misunderstood aspect of any industrial process is that "waste" doesn't really exist. You just end up with materials that you do not currently have a use for. In early petroleum processing gasoline was a product that would commonly be dumped into rivers as a waste product. Once we had cars, gasoline became useful.

A problem particular to the nuclear industry is a variety of regulations that prevent private reprocessing of nuclear energy by-products that specifically results in no market forming to come up with uses for them.

https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/scien ... s-of-years
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