Jordon Peterson

[Overlord]

I don't want to discuss Buddhism. I think I wrote that earlier. I don't even want to discuss Peterson, primarily because nothing specific about what he thinks has been brought up. There are a lot of videos and he discusses lots of stuff, and you say he has lots of books.

One thing that's clear is that you really want us to hear him and you find his ideas helpful. That's cool. How about picking an idea he has that you disagree with --agreeing might be too easy. We can talk about that.

Steve,
Mate, just because I found it helpful doesn’t mean it’s to you.
Can you be specific on the things that you find what you can’t agree with ?
For instance, he talked about honesty- or least not to lie. I think it’s a very good idea.
While you probably think differently, in this case you probably think to lie in degree is healthy
it doesn’t mean what he said is wrong. In my opinion and experiences, lie does catch up with you soon or later.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

I like Jordon Peterson and Ben Shapiro in many certain aspects of things.

Ouch.

[Steve James]

No. Lying is certainly unhealthy in many ways. I was just referring to his statement that "Truth is health" was the basis of western civilization. I just pointed out that that concept has been at the heart of western political philosophy. Truth is right, and truth is good. But, when Plato tries to argue what is good and true, a guy comes along and says "might makes right." Or, we get to the biblical commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." I.e., don't lie, because it's really hard for societies to survive when no one can be believed. That's why we make people put their hands on the Bible and say "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

I have no problem with Peterson's idea that truth is healthy. I also agree with the Declaration of Independence; "We hold these Truths to be Self-evident, that all Men are created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights..." But, my agreement is irrelevant. All that matters is how those ideas and truths are put into effect.

[Steve James]

Just found this ... because now YouTube algorithms think that's what I want to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbmNopOvuVY

[Trick]

He(JP) seem to stir up people’s minds, make some to question their masculinity(has come clear in the thread....?j
Some equal him to the Buddha. Most in the thread find him crap.....

Usually I don’t look up what most people look at, but tonight I’m really gonna look for some JP vid on youku......got to find out if he can stir me up too...

[Overlord]

Just found this ... because now YouTube algorithms think that's what I want to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbmNopOvuVY

Thanks for sharing Stevei. This is an awesom clip.
A lot of ideas echo with PUA understanding of things, but with stronger evidence based work.

[Trick]

The guy's logic and work are rubbish as well. Let me state this clearly - Jordan Peterson plain sucks. I feel someone like Daniele Bolelli is a better example of masculinity and reason. 12 Rules? How simplistic. I'd rather Create My Own Religion from 50 Things I'm not supposed to know and be Not Afraid out there On the Warrior's Path.

Don’t know him, maybe interesting. If you can post his Xingyi/Xinyi clips to see I be thrilled to see his interpretations of things. As for masculinity of things, let me find out more.
.

here around at the 2 minutes mark he talk about "warrior stuff" and throws a punch https://m.baidu.com/sf?pd=video_page&ni ... 1475780822

[Steve James]

This one was interesting too, especially as a character study.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC1vgJX18ZE

I actually agree with the overall concept. I.e., in my personal experience, I was most successful with women when I cared about them the least --like after a divorce. Being a bad boy was more fun. Otoh, I have adult grandchildren. Back in the day, we didn't have videos; but there were plenty of pimps.

When I listen to these lectures, it seems there must be a bunch of unsatisfied people. A young friend of mine showed me Tinder, and says he gets hooked up whenever he wants. Scares the hell out of me, and I remember the 70s.

Anyway, I disagree with him about this; I think agreeability is a virtue. It is a virtue because it involves sacrifice rather than gain. Yes, nice guys might not get the most beautiful girls or become ceos; but they probably won't become criminals, and if they're talented, they'll be successful.

Peterson also doesn't bring up one other thing. It's not so easy having a beautiful woman, for lots of reasons. One of them is that she might feel better with someone to support her. And, that can be very taxing. It might be wise to consider John Nash's advice. Simply put, go for the beautiful girl's friends. The percentage of scores will be higher because most of your competition will be trying to outdo the others for the most beautiful girl in the room. (He won a Nobel Prize for that. )

[Overlord]

Yes, John Nash method is way better.
Under the context if you are the better candidate in every aspect.

I just rethink his rule about "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world"~
This is definitely not true if the social context is the cause of family or personal misfortune, for instance Totalitarianism.

[Trick]

I just rethink his rule about "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world"~
This is definitely not true if the social context is the cause of family or personal misfortune, for instance Totalitarianism.

Yea# maybe not that easy to set ones house in order, in these times of dismantling concept of such as nuclear family and (private)property and nations ?

[Dmitri]

Anyone trying to really understand the guy should watch Rogan's interview with him. It's long, but it's absolutely worth it. His marketing and the way he makes a living is just the business thing... He's a really smart guy, who suffered more than most people, and most of his ideas make a hell of a lot of sense. FWIW

[Steve James]

He's a really smart guy, who suffered more than most people, and most of his ideas make a hell of a lot of sense.

Well, I'm more interested in his specific ideas than in him, personally. But, it'd be interesting to hear which of his ideas you don't think make a hell of a lot of sense.

[Quigga]

He got a lot of flak for daring to propose:
1) there are inherent differences in genders
2) having a first instance of requiring citizens by law to say a certain thing is bad
3) even in the most equal societies, i.e. Sweden, men tend to go into STEM and women into caring/teaching/nursing
4) equality of outcome is tyrannic and evil, equality of opportunity is just and good
5) hierarchies of competence naturally form when people strive towards a common goal, ie smth that is seen as good or desirable; they are completely different than hierarchies of power
6) most women would be happier if they had a family and kids
7) and the worst one: there is a natural order in this world that can be discovered via the Logos; ie the mechanism that structures chaos via correct speech and behavior, i.e. behaving rational even in the face of *gasp* data that offends some people

My addition: Everything has to make sense, ie there is only one sense when you combine all the sensory organs and data.

I'm sorry for him that he suffered so much. I wrote this off the top of my head before going to sleep.

[Steve James]

7) and the worst one: there is a natural order in this world that can be discovered via the Logos; ie the mechanism that structures chaos via correct speech and behavior, i.e. behaving rational even in the face of *gasp* data that offends some people

Well, usually when someone speaks o a natural order, they see themselves toward the top, if not like Linnaeus, at the top. But, granted, there is an order in societies, nature, and probably the universe. I guess I'd have to look up what he means by "the Logos," but in the Biblical sense it means the word of God. I'm not sure I can go along with that --and it's not because I disagree with Jesus .

Afa his other assertions, there have been worse. I'm always more interested in the conclusions than the premises. As in, ok, the genders (or more precisely the sexes) are different in fundamental ways. So what? How does that affect his idea about "equal opportunity?" Or, what should be done about men who want to stay home with the kids (or are unemployed) with wives who want to work? To me, it comes down to an individual's freedom to make choices, regardless of whether that choice happens to offend Christians, for ex.

[Quigga]

Well, it's easier to observe everything down from a mountain than being in the jungle... But I don't think he is that arrogant. He just says there is order and chaos; that stuff, especially in the human realm, tends to go towards chaos and that we naturally evolved certain ideas and functions to carve out our little piece of order and keep chaos at bay.

He has a whole series on Youtube dealing with biblical imagery and concepts. As for Logos... He started observing himself when he talked and noticed that there is a mode of speech that made him feel more integrated and "stronger"; and a way of talking that did the opposite. So he chose the route that includes "do not lie". He thinks that by talking as honestly as you can without unneccassarily casing pain you can gravitate towards Logos.

Why can't you go along with that?

Right, the proper term would be sex. When it came to concrete measures based on the data he presented, he frequently said "I don't know." He (imo) rightfully struggles with post modernism, arguing that there are only a limited number of ways to look at things so as to produce a meaningful and productive (as in for the common good) interpretation.

As I understand, he deeply values the amount of individual freedom we acquired while pointing out that we need individual responsibility to maintain it.

He ended up informing the masses as a clinical psychologist, not acting in a directive function and that's where he broke himself IMO. Without being a saint you can only deal with a limited amount of bullshit.

Would like to write more, but have to get ready for my early shift.