what is energy

[aamc]

Moving from physics to metaphysics, and in a similar vein. Entropy and Yin/Yang theory seem to me irreconcilable. You cannot have a balanced interchange between elements, if the universe is on the path to heat death.

[Steve James]

The problem is that "energy" takes many forms even in physics. Light, sound, radiation, and heat are all forms of energy.

Afa qi,however, someone already pointed out that "yi leads qi." So, which is the "energy?" And, what about li?

[Trick]

Maybe energy once open a time was created or maybe it’s something thats eternal...
But for now energy is not created(I’ll guess), it just transforms. We have mastered some of its possibilities of energy transformation, there’s most certainly many more to be discovered.

[Bao]

someone already pointed out that "yi leads qi." So, which is the "energy?" And, what about li?

Qi is obviously the energy. Yi is your awareness or focus, a mechanism in your brain. If you focus on any body part, your nervous system will activate that body part. Think about yi as the mechanism that activates the brain to send signals and qi as the electrical impulses that goes through the nervous system.

Yes, what about Li? Why taking Li into comparison? Li refers mostly to the untrained mechanical use of your muscles. Like tensing or exerting the muscles in your body when you lift something heavy. Or if a machine can use a lot of power or strength, you can say that the machine has a lot of "li".

[Steve James]

But, you've just described "li" as energy. Sure, you can say that qi is the energy, but it's the "yi" that does the work of leading it. Not to mention, many would say that thought is energy --chemically produced, and that "shen" is energy.

I think there's a problem, as already noted, in correlating "energy" as described by western physics with tcm descriptions. I'm not saying that Qi isn't energy or that it is. But, the same is true for yi, li, and shen. In my understanding of their relationship, the qi must be moved. It's not the mover.

[windwalker]

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[Trick]

someone already pointed out that "yi leads qi." So, which is the "energy?" And, what about li?

Qi is obviously the energy. Yi is your awareness or focus, a mechanism in your brain. If you focus on any body part, your nervous system will activate that body part. Think about yi as the mechanism that activates the brain to send signals and qi as the electrical impulses that goes through the nervous system.

Yes, what about Li? Why taking Li into comparison? Li refers mostly to the untrained mechanical use of your muscles. Like tensing or exerting the muscles in your body when you lift something heavy. Or if a machine can use a lot of power or strength, you can say that the machine has a lot of "li".

but this is transformation of energy ? yi - qi - li.... heres another albert quote, einstein or not, i guess doesnt matter

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.

..........ashes to ashes, dust to dust

[Trick]

https://y.music.163.com/m/song?id=18922935

[Steve James]

but this is transformation of energy ? yi - qi - li

Yep, in the western model.

The Qi is already moving in different pathways on its own.

I agree that the qi is moving, but it's not always because of yi. Qi moves in the blood and breath, but yi doesn't move the blood or make us breathe. The yi leads qi model is a way to intentionally direct it and use it in specific ways ("for health or self defense").

Emotions can cause the qi to move, but that's not using yi. What about emotional energy? Anger, fear, seeing a loved one in danger, all have and can create energy. Qi can't be separated from them, but calling qi the energy doesn't really clarify anything. I mean; it can be debated forever. Generally, there are specific ways to measure energy in most of its forms. When there's one we can all agree on for qi, the debate will be settled. I'd love for that to happen, but I think it's a bit like measuring spirit (or shen).

[Bao]

I'm not saying that Qi isn't energy or that it is. But, the same is true for yi, li, and shen.

In western science everything is energy. Your physical body as well. I don't see the point in labelling everything with the same term. Then why differentiate things with different terms?

In my understanding of their relationship, the qi must be moved. It's not the mover.

I think you contradict yourself. That everything is energy correlates to the Chinese idea that everything is Qi. In that case, it can be lead, it can be moved, it moves by itself.

You can't use a general terminology on one hand and the choose one specific thing do define in detail on the other hand and make them match. You seem to take one theory here and a completely different from there, they don't match and all of it becomes very confused. No offence, just IMHO as I have no idea want you want to say.

[Steve James]

In western science everything is energy.

That everything is energy correlates to the Chinese idea that everything is Qi.

You win. Everything is energy, so qi is energy; and everything is qi.

[Bao]

Don't give up so easily. There's more to quarrel about.

but this is transformation of energy ? yi - qi - li

Yep, in the western model.

In the Chinese version it's Jing - qi - shen if you speak about transformation. Li has no place in this equation. Yi does not transform into anything. Xin, not yi, transform jing into q and then into shen. Yi is the "idea" in your head that leads your movement and qi is what get your body to move. Li is a special way to use your body, not a general way it's not something that has anything to do with transformation. It doesn't mean force in the same way.

And besides, if we are going to explain western science with Chinese terminology, we should use modern Chinese. You just don't use the term "li" as "force" in Chinese if we speak about science. In Chinese you need to specify what kind of force or "li" you mean. 力 or li is a character, but the words used for "force" in science consists mostly of two characters. You need to know the correct words.

张力速度关系曲线 is the chinese expression for the force velocity relation curve Here you use 张力 which actually means tension or pulling force.

量力, Liangli, is used for velocity etc.

And energy is 能量, nengliang. Einsteins formula E=Mc2 in Chinese is called "质能互换公式" or ”the Mass-energy exchange formula”

E/=/M/x/C/2
能量/等于/质量/乘于/光速/平方

[Steve James]

In the Chinese version it's Jing - qi - shen if you speak about transformation. Li has no place in this equation.

I only know the version yi leads qi, and it's often translated as the mind leads the energy --and that's how it works in tcc. I threw in li, but I didn't mean it as part of a transformation. "Li (brute muscular force) leading the qi" is the opposite of what we want. Shen is necessary. It's the tiger hiding behind the lady. Bruce Lee might have called it "emotional content."

Anyway, I'm still not sure it's helpful to mix the models.

[Trick]

In western science everything is energy.

That everything is energy correlates to the Chinese idea that everything is Qi.

You win. Everything is energy, so qi is energy; and everything is qi.

Yes here i too confess, Qi equals the “western” term energy. Qi Manifest matter n different shapes......However about Yi, is Yi bigger/the origins of Qi. If there is something as an soul where would that fit in the energy hierarchy pyramid ?

[Dmitri]

In western science everything is energy.

That everything is energy correlates to the Chinese idea that everything is Qi.

You win. Everything is energy, so qi is energy; and everything is qi.

So, like, that guy who asked "what is energy?" in the OP, is the energy... Whoa, duuuude... 'Cause, like, he's everything, but also, like, part of everything, at the same time... Pass the bong, dude...