Bokh wrestling and the cultural genocide in Inner Mongolia

[Bao]

I wonder how many Jewish terrorists there are in China? Bao?

In the article it just says that they are worried about losing their Jewish identity, it says nothing about that they are treated as terrorists or anything similar:

“It’s government policy – China doesn’t want to recognise us as Jews,” one man, who dreams of training as a rabbi in Israel, told the Telegraph. “Their goal is to make sure the next generation doesn’t have any Jewish identity.”

You know, in the WW2, China took in tenth of thousands Jews escaping from Europe. At one time, Shanghai took in 30 000 Jews. They demanded no papers, no nothing. They just let the Jews in to stay, and they took good care about them. China use this as a historical example that they also care about Human Rights. They have also had good relationships with Israel. So if you want me to believe that they would risk all of this by trying to Han-ify the Jews in China, you need to offer more proofs than an single interview with one person who dream to go Israel.

[Bao]

Here's another thing for the deluded to deny is really happening -

"China is forcing hundreds of thousands of Uighurs and other minorities into hard, manual labour in the vast cotton fields of its western region of Xinjiang, according to new research seen by the BBC. ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g30 ... ted-cotton

What’s really happening? The report that BBC uses here offers no real proof. The US funded report offers no proofs other than speculations from figures found in different Chinese official records.

And it doesn’t even draw any conclusion, it just says that “it is very likely that a major share of cotton production in Xinjiang is tainted with forced labor”.

It mentions nothing about how this labor would look like, how it should be organized or how the laborers would be treated. It merely speculate that “it is likely” because they need a lot of manual labor in the cotton production. And this is the only base for the conclusion. Please, I Would need something far better than this as “proofs”.

(Payed labor is just a likely according to the content in the report. So why the conclusion that it is likely that it’s forced labor? Nothing in the report supports this idea, or that forced labor would be more likely than payed.)

Conclusions
This report has established three key findings:
1. The production of Xinjiang cotton continues to heavily rely on manual labor, primarily in cotton picking. This applies even more to the production of high- er-quality cotton.
2. The state’s labor transfer scheme mobilizes hundreds of thousands (in 2018, upward of half a million) cotton pickers from ethnic minority regions.
3. There are strong indications that the labor transfer scheme is coer-cive in key aspects (recruitment, transfer, on-site management). Evidence for this exists both for the broader scheme in general and specifically for labor transfer into cotton picking.
...
Therefore, it is very likely that a major share of cotton production in Xinjiang is tainted with forced labor

Here is the full 20 pages report:
https://cgpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads ... Zenz-1.pdf

[GrahamB]

Oh my god you're just incredible.

[Bao]

Oh my god you're just incredible.

Why don’t you just read the original report that I attached thoroughly any and tell me about what conclusions you come up with?

I read it and came to my own conclusions based only on what was in the report. Why can’t you?

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

I wonder how many Jewish terrorists there are in China? Bao?

Sorry, I was being a smart ass. Some here have pointed to Muslim terrorists being the reason for Uighur abuses, so I was pointing out the apparent lack of consistency behind that argument.

[GrahamB]

Oh my god you're just incredible.

Why don’t you just read the original report that I attached thoroughly any and tell me about what conclusions you come up with?

I read it and came to my own conclusions based only on what was in the report. Why can’t you?

Your conclusion is not rational or logical. You seem to live in a reality distorition bubble. I still remember showing you a picture of uyghur people forced to be lined up iniside an "education camp" behind an iron fence, and you throught they were just a group of people standing outside the fence. Not inside it. Amazing.

[Bao]

Well, I guessed that you were not interested in reading any sources, or in discussing facts and sources.

[Bao]

Earlier this year there was a Harvard report that claimed that they had proofs that Wuhan was infected by COVID-19 already in August 2019. Why? Because they had satellite pictures of a hospital crowded with cars. Unusually crowded, which they could prove as well. So this hit the news and BBC and other big media companies claimed that China had kept it secret since August 2019.

But then it turned out that the hospital was a children’s hospital that had had nothing to do with COVID, not earlier or later. And why the area was crowded by cars was due to a large work rebuilding the streets.

So again, this was a Harvard report that claimed that they had proofs that Wuhan was infected by COVID-19 already in August 2019.
A HARVARD REPORT.

...

This is exactly how reporting and media usually works here in the west. At least when it comes to China. So if you want can choose to be ignorant and go with 98% of the world, and just believe everything what BBC write without any critical thinking, which is the politically correct thing to do. Or you can go against the crowd, go to the sources, find out the original sources, try to figure out the facts and from where they originate. This is what I always try to do without listening to, or taking, any side. But to do this you need to be brave enough to not follow the crowd and actually take time to think by yourself.

... Oh, and btw, I have never claimed that there are no problems in China. But regardless what is true or not, the way that the news sources and media here in the West treat China is really a joke, completely ludicrous, not a bit serious and really unjust.

[Finny]

Earlier this year there was a Harvard report that claimed that they had proofs that Wuhan was infected by COVID-19 already in August 2019. Why? Because they had satellite pictures of a hospital crowded with cars. Unusually crowded, which they could prove as well. So this hit the news and BBC and other big media companies claimed that China had kept it secret since August 2019.

But then it turned out that the hospital was a children’s hospital that had had nothing to do with COVID, not earlier or later. And why the area was crowded by cars was due to a large work rebuilding the streets.

So again, this was a Harvard report that claimed that they had proofs that Wuhan was infected by COVID-19 already in August 2019.
A HARVARD REPORT.

Harvard is a university, not a media or journalism outlet. What are you talking about?

This is exactly how reporting and media usually works here in the west.

Not at all. BUT if you want to discuss the origins of the virus, be prepared to be attacked by your beloved govt, just like Australia has been, for calling for an investigation. The Chinese are so wonderful and tolerant that they have imposed multiple trade sanctions on Australia simply for calling for an investigation.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-27/world-health-organization-coronavirus-investigation/12598616

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/12/01/commentary/world-commentary/china-hard-line-australia/

At least when it comes to China. So if you want can choose to be ignorant and go with 98% of the world, and just believe everything what BBC write without any critical thinking, which is the politically correct thing to do. Or you can go against the crowd, go to the sources, find out the original sources, try to figure out the facts and from where they originate. This is what I always try to do without listening to, or taking, any side. But to do this you need to be brave enough to not follow the crowd and actually take time to think by yourself.

... Oh, and btw, I have never claimed that there are no problems in China. But regardless what is true or not, the way that the news sources and media here in the West treat China is really a joke, completely ludicrous, not a bit serious and really unjust.

You have provided zero sources, and make an argument on the basis of 'going to the sources'.

Is this article not to be believed?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55126569

[Franklin]

This is exactly how reporting and media usually works here in the west.

Not at all. BUT if you want to discuss the origins of the virus, be prepared to be attacked by your beloved govt, just like Australia has been, for calling for an investigation. The Chinese are so wonderful and tolerant that they have imposed multiple trade sanctions on Australia simply for calling for an investigation.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-27/world-health-organization-coronavirus-investigation/12598616

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/12/01/commentary/world-commentary/china-hard-line-australia/

that's pretty much standard practice for them
the play book is what -
say those are unfounded allegations
then attack...
then use manipulated status quo or other international organizations which they have large controlling interests as - as proof of something being normal
lol

don't forget they have actually now accused the US, Italy, India, and Australia as the source of the virus
right when the WHO starts to conduct the "investigation" into the origins of the virus...
this is all so laughable...
not only the WHO doing an independent "investigation"
but how they are muddying the water right when they need it...


but actually there has been some speculation as to China's sanctions and actions against Australia...
with some saying it might be a longer term strategy to stop Australia siding with anyone else in future military stuff against the CCP
something about the CCP sub routes out of the south china sea (from those man made islands that were not supposed to be militarized)
the northern route for the subs - passes south of taiwan - hence the importance for them to "deal" with taiwan
and the 2 southern routes pass north of Australia...
and something about Australia upgrading its under sea detection capabilities that the CCP doesn't like...

[Franklin]

might also be important and relevant to our conversation here that:

as reported here:
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4080357

China has the most imprisoned reporters of any country in the world for the second year in a row, counting 47 in total, according to an annual report published by the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) on Tuesday (Dec. 15).

Many of the jailed Chinese journalists had been reporting in China’s Xinjiang region, where it is estimated that over a million Uyghurs have been held in concentration camps and hundreds of thousands have been forced into labor. In many instances, the charges against the journalists working in Xinjiang have not been made public.

which is a commentary on this report from the CPJ

https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record- ... mprisoned/

which includes a list of all the currently jailed journalists in China
https://cpj.org/data/imprisoned/2020/?s ... y=location


edit--
this is an older article about media and media censorship inside of China
from 2017
but it lays out some of the basics on how things work there..
its not really like anything most people in the west would consider normal

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/media-censorship-china

[Bao]

Of course Harvard is a University. What are you talking about? That is what makes it funny. They should be scientific and not make stupid conclusions without checking out facts.

'.

Is this article not to be believed?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55126569

This is very funny, I had a good laugh when I first saw the Australian reaction. Hypocrisy at it’s finest. When Chinese make jokes or satire of what countries in the West does, then those countries are furious. But when people here make jokes with Islam and make pictures of a naked Mohammed, which Moslems it is called Freedom of speech.

What the Chinese made a picture about is something true, a War crime that Australia committed. And the Chinese are not allowed to speak up?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54996581

This is the Western View of Freedom of Speech. Western, officially democratic countries have the right to speak up and say what they want. Other, less democratic and “inferior” countries don’t have the same right.

I Liked what the Chinese did here and I am very happy that Australia got upset. They really deserved it.

If I was going to use exactly the same logic that the West here use about China, I would say that the Australian government has an agenda to kill civilians in the War. Because their military has done it, so of course they will do it again. It’s in their heart.

[Giles]

Hey, wait a moment. I contend that there is a big difference between

A) creating a caricature which, although some may find it offensive, is still clearly recognisable as a caricature (i.e. not real) and hence an expression of a personal viewpoint

and

B) creating a fake image that is intended to be seen as a real photograph of an act/event, or where it may be assumed that whatever your intention, a large number of people will believe it to be a real photograph.

The first example is artistic/political expression, the second is truly “fake news” intended to be perceived as real. In other words: “lying”. Reminds me of the image released by Russia some time after MH17 was shot down by a Buk missile where they photoshopped in a Ukrainian jet fighter and claimed it was a satellite image – total bullshit, the proportions didn’t work out and it wasn’t true anyway.

Of course, the actions of the Australian soldiers were barbaric and evil, no dispute there. But that's not what I'm talking about right now.

[Finny]

Of course Harvard is a University. What are you talking about? That is what makes it funny. They should be scientific and not make stupid conclusions without checking out facts.

Still no idea what you're talking about.

This is very funny, I had a good laugh when I first saw the Australian reaction. Hypocrisy at it’s finest. When Chinese make jokes or satire of what countries in the West does, then those countries are furious. But when people here make jokes with Islam and make pictures of a naked Mohammed, which Moslems it is called Freedom of speech.

What the Chinese made a picture about is something true, a War crime that Australia committed. And the Chinese are not allowed to speak up?

1. No, there is no hypocrisy from Australia - the Australian government has never created fake or fictional images that have offended anyone and published them.

2. There is no 'joke' or 'satire' in an image of a soldier holding a knife to the throat of a small child. It's horrific, and intended to be so. The message is pretty clear.

This is the Western View of Freedom of Speech. Western, officially democratic countries have the right to speak up and say what they want. Other, less democratic and “inferior” countries don’t have the same right.

I Liked what the Chinese did here and I am very happy that Australia got upset. They really deserved it.

If I was going to use exactly the same logic that the West here use about China, I would say that the Australian government has an agenda to kill civilians in the War. Because their military has done it, so of course they will do it again. It’s in their heart.

There are distinct differences though Bao. The ONLY reason the war crimes allegedly committed by Australian solders is in the news, is because AUSTRALIA released the findings of an investigation into conduct in Afghanistan. Western, officially democratic countries as you describe them, allow for the reporting and publicising of terrible things that happen. That's how we learn from our mistakes. China has a history of murdering it's own citizens and repressing discussion. As highlighted above - the most journalists imprisoned on earth, and most of those in xinjiang. I'm sure the cccp just didn't want them reporting about how lovely it is there though.

Your approach to this discussion is telling though. Why are you 'very happy' that Australia was upset? Why do you think Austrlia 'deserved it?' Could it be that you just believe the message that image perpetuates.. exactly as intended? Do you actually know anything about Australia's actions in wartime? In Afghanistan? Why would you think that, when the Australian government is the very body publicising and taking action on allegations of war crimes in recent years, that 'of course they will do it again,it's in their heart.'? It's a weird thing to say. And pretty juvenile, to be honest.

[Bao]

Hey, wait a moment. I contend that there is a big difference between...

Agreed. However, as I’ve understood the original creator of the picture never stated that it was a real picture.

Still, I can’t see the reaction as anything else than hypocritical, as trying to deny what they did.

Of course, the actions of the Australian soldiers were barbaric and evil, no dispute there.

Good.