Experts are back

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Experts are back

Postby GrahamB on Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:17 am

How did we ever get to a world where Trump, QAnon, massive COVID death rates and Brexit happen? It feels like, right now, we're finally turning a corner, where experts are being listened to again, and the whole world can stop being so damn stupid. But for how long?


“I said this to someone in the comments, but I think a lot of you need to hear this. I always say you should know your strengths and listen to the experts. If you want to learn about building biceps, listen to me, because I’ve spent my life studying how to get the perfect peak and I have been called the greatest bodybuilder of all time. We all have different specialties.

Dr. Fauci and all of the virologists and epidemiologists and doctors have studied diseases and vaccines for their entire lives, so I listen to them and I urge you to do the same. None of us are going to learn more than them by watching a few hours of videos. It’s simple: if your house in on fire, you don’t go on YouTube, you call the damn fire department. If you have a heart attack, you don’t check your Facebook group, you call an ambulance. If 9 doctors tell you you have cancer and need to treat it or you will die, and 1 doctor says the cancer will disappear, you should always side with the 9. In this case, virtually all of the real experts around the world are telling us the vaccine is safe and some people on Facebook are saying it isn’t.

In general, I think if the circle of people you trust gets smaller and smaller and you find yourself more and more isolated, it should be a warning sign that you’re going down a rabbit hole of misinformation. Some people say it is weak to listen to experts. That’s bogus. It takes strength to admit you don’t know everything. Weakness is thinking you don’t need expert advice and only listening to sources that confirm what you want to believe.”
- Arnold Schwarzenegger

If you don't become the ocean you'll be seasick every day.
Heretics podcast | The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 12523
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Experts are back

Postby wiesiek on Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:29 am

We are now in time of changing our knowledge due to diggin` into quantum physic ...
As usual experts are in two camps.
Change is in understanding HOW it really work. From 19 c., science was build around pure mechanical image of the human body and the universe (similarity to the mechanic of the clock was on the table). It works, but to the point, where we now understand - that not quite...
so
building biceps means nothing against internal training/knowledge.
Of course biceps means a lot in the TV culture...
but definitely is pumped on steroids.
Joyful Fruits of the Live
wiesiek
Wuji
 
Posts: 4105
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 am
Location: krakow

Re: Experts are back

Postby Steve James on Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:14 am

How did we ever get to a world where Trump, QAnon, massive COVID death rates and Brexit happen?


It's as easy as quantum mechanics. Unless there's 100% consensus, there will be people who say that there's doubt. If there's 100% consensus, there will be people who say that is suspicious (i.e., "All the main stream media are saying the same thing; so, it must be a lie").

Maybe the link is not the skepticism about sources, but the attribution of bad intentions to any action. Much support for Trump came from the belief that there were evil intentions behind certain policies. Trump, for eg., was fighting against globalism and the radical left. Yeah, it's argued that he was fighting "for" something (Christianity, western civilization, America), but he always spoke in terms of "us" against the enemies of those things --which of course ended up being American Christians.

Q-Anon was/is motivated by those beliefs. I mean, c'mon. It wouldn't surprise anyone if there were Democrat pedophiles. It's just that it wouldn't surprise anyone if there were Republican conservative preachers of megachurches who were pedophiles either. Pick a sin, and I'll bet the ones yelling about it most have also done it as much as anyone else.

The covid crisis is another example. People have found reasons to be against it being presented as a problem because there's some evil intentions behind it. The same arguments are used concerning the development of a vaccine. When the vaccine comes, there are arguments against taking it --because "they" are using us a guinea pigs, or want to secretly implant microchips -that will communicate with the 5G towers.

Long story short: All you need to do is convince someone that there are evil forces behind something to get them to be against something.

[Edit] Example: “Let me say that again for Fox News sponsors,” he [Scarborough] continued. “For Fox News sponsors to let you know what’s happening now on Fox News. That they are getting people who are Fox News contributors, who are saying that Democrats, Joe Biden, and Democrats, want to, quote, exterminate all Republicans.”
Last edited by Steve James on Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19791
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Experts are back

Postby everything on Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:21 am

In general, I think if the circle of people you trust gets smaller and smaller and you find yourself more and more isolated, it should be a warning sign that you’re going down a rabbit hole of misinformation.


.... I only listen to rsf chatter ..... have you guys been feeding me the wrong information? :-\ ??? ::)
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Experts are back

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:22 am

wiesiek wrote:We are now in time of changing our knowledge due to diggin` into quantum physic ...
As usual experts are in two camps.
Change is in understanding HOW it really work. From 19 c., science was build around pure mechanical image of the human body and the universe (similarity to the mechanic of the clock was on the table). It works, but to the point, where we now understand - that not quite...
so
building biceps means nothing against internal training/knowledge.
Of course biceps means a lot in the TV culture...
but definitely is pumped on steroids.


No.
文武両道。

Lord Li requires one hundred gold coins per day!
User avatar
Ian C. Kuzushi
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Experts are back

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:36 am

It was extremely refreshing yesterday to see a daily white house press conference that was half Dr. Fauci talking science.
"My own knowledge is shallow and I await corrections from the intelligent."
-Hermit of Jade Well
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 2055
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Experts are back

Postby everything on Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:27 am

it's mind boggling and horrifying that if wanted to know about x, we didn't listen to an expert on x.

but guess we shouldn't have taken it for granted.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Experts are back

Postby grzegorz on Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:33 pm

Arnold has been a strong voice of reason as of late.

Here was his speech after 1-6.

https://youtu.be/mz3zFsTp2Pk

I think Social Dilemma (the movie) and confirmation bias have summed up what is happening in our online world today.

What has surprised me is that people I both loved and respected for years fell victim. Without making this political, I will take Covid as an example because it crosses political lines. I talk with people on the right and left who still don't think Covid is all that serious. I just hold my tongue usually because I know a few sentences from me isn't going to delete the 20 hours of conspiracy theory videos from their brain and the same with politics...

I agree with Graham at least at the top in this country experts are involved in the decision making.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6935
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: America great yet?

Re: Experts are back

Postby grzegorz on Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:52 pm

Along those lines. Here's a blast from the past.

Watch "Who's Actually Supporting Donald Trump? | The Daily Show" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/6a_6pwTO_gk
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6935
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: America great yet?

Re: Experts are back

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:37 am

More wisdom from Arnold.

Watch "Arnold Schwarzenegger has a message to internet commenters" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/n_hPISebgs4
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6935
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: America great yet?

Re: Experts are back

Postby Trick on Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:39 am

wiesiek wrote:building biceps means nothing against internal training/knowledge.
Of course biceps means a lot in the TV culture...
but definitely is pumped on steroids.

Arnold is too modest, perhaps not fully Americanized....A good musculus bicep makes you not only an bicep expert in the US, but also an expert Hollywood actor as well as an expert mingler with the American elite...
Perhaps here’s where the last prez failed, he should probably have curled more..
Trick
Anjing
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:51 pm

Re: Experts are back

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:39 pm

Fantasy Trump.

Image

Real Trump.

Image
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6935
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: America great yet?

Re: Experts are back

Postby wiesiek on Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:07 am

@ Ian,
You`re free to understand yourself like Swiss watch, in fact even most of the Docs. do it.
so, go wit the flock.
In spare time read "Multidimensional Medicine", if you still able to think independently.
Joyful Fruits of the Live
wiesiek
Wuji
 
Posts: 4105
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 am
Location: krakow

Re: Experts are back

Postby wiesiek on Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:24 am

Right now, we have whole nation workin` as the experimental pigs (Israel over 4 mil, vaccinated ).

In mean time son of my friend in Israel died during the night (sleeping).30 y.o. diver instructor btw.
Don`t know yet, did he get second dose.
Joyful Fruits of the Live
wiesiek
Wuji
 
Posts: 4105
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:38 am
Location: krakow

Re: Experts are back

Postby Giles on Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:04 am

1. It’s really sad when something like that happens. I have known two fit and healthy men (one aged 19, one aged about 40) to whom that happened. In each case it was a lung embolism. I also know of a diving instructor (friend of a friend in Greece) between 40 and 50 who died unexpectedly in his sleep, in this case I don’t know the cause. All happened more than 3 years ago.

2. This remark, question, implication, could be a textbook example a ‘misinformation seed’. Of how something can be posted online, picked up and ‘optimized’ by someone else and soon enough you have a viral social media item along the lines of “Young Israeli diving instructor dies after receiving corona vaccination!” or indeed “Young Israeli diving instructor killed by corona vaccination!!!”
Given the nature and status of RSF I don’t think it will actually happen in this case, luckily, but you see what I’m getting at...?
Last edited by Giles on Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
Giles
Wuji
 
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Next

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bailewen and 7 guests