The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Trick on Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:37 pm

. I think the people who start conspiracy theories don't believe them. Alex Jones says that what he says is entertainment. Tucker Carlson says that no one has to take what he or his guests say seriously.
I enjoy conspiracy theories they are mostly entertaining to me, kind of in a way they make me to think - “can there be a grain of truth in there, let’s brainstorm the subject”, if I find nothing of value I don’t get in an ridicule mood or anger cause I’m still entertained by the imaginary thinking of the theorist.
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Giles on Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:21 am

Trick wrote:
. what the early Popes did often had more to do with keeping control rather than whether they believed they were eating bread and drinking wine. I.e., if you didn't go along with the story, you could be burned as a witch. Calling many conspiracy theories "witch hunts" would be accurate
No I don’t think that would be accurate, they’re not that powerful at all as you can see in the wordings of them -conspiracy theorists, it’s just theories flung around believed by a very small unorganized community , most laugh at them, others get angry with them. The witch hunt is probably the other way around, it’s more likely the OP here try to start a witch hunt, or at least express his anger toward the lonely strawman standing there in the field not even powerful to scare away the crows picking at him.....


Not powerful, not harmful? Just a small unorganized community? Sometimes that's true. For you it seems to be more a playful hobby, as you describe in your following post. I'm sure you're a decent and peaceful guy. But sometimes, obviously, your description doesn't fit the facts. It was a baseless 'conspiracy theory' (or several partly overlapping ones) that prompted the storming of the Capitol and that is still causing a significant proportion of the US population to believe that the current POTUS is illegitimately in office. That's eroding the structure of democracy in the US and potentially elsewhere too. And it may well prompt further unrest and terrorist attacks. And conspiracy theories about the Sars-Cov-19 virus have led many people, both citizens and some decison-makers, to ignore or downplay the danger at crucial times, resulting in more deaths than would otherwise be the case.
I don't think that YOU, Trick, are at all dangerous to health, lives and social stability. But some of the current major conspiracy theories are. Demonstrably.
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Steve James on Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:23 am

The Jewish "conspiracy theory" is still being brought up, even after it's gotten millions of people killed. So, if I were a Jew, I'd think anyone spouting those beliefs is a threat. I assume that anyone who'll believe those theories is capable of murder --because that's been true in the past. I also know that people who'll believe that about Jews will also believe stupid shit about me. A few years ago, the enemy was Muslims, then it was Mexicans, then it was domestic immigrants, then it was their supporters, then it was the Democrats, now it's Republicans (who "believe") versus those who don't.

Because of the conspiracy theory about the election, a police officer was killed or murdered, two have committed suicide, and four supporters were trampled to death. Arnold Schwarzenegger said it reminded him of Kristallnacht in Germany. Sure, people ask" what about the BLM protests during the summer? At least, in every case, the protest was about an actual person who was killed by or in the custody of police. It wasn't a theoretical complaint, whether one agrees or not. It's ironic that --you can check-- no cops were killed at these protests. Do a Snopes.

One group of people are protesting something they watched for almost 9 minutes; another is protesting based on something that someone told them. Anyway, whether a police action was justified or not can be determined in court. Though, the courts don't always satisfy the community's sense of justice. Otoh, where is Q? If he doesn't exist, then everyone who believed "him" was duped. Did they send money? Did they buy memorabilia on sites like Infowars? Did it make them feel part of a powerful community? But, how would it feel to find out everything was a lie?

(@Giles. The merchandizing of a conspiracy theory was common throughout the 19th and 20th c. Following the money often leads to a "leader" who is simply a manipulator who doesn't believe what he's pushing, but knows it's profitable.
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:51 am

It was a baseless 'conspiracy theory' (or several partly overlapping ones) that prompted the storming of the Capitol and that is still causing a significant proportion of the US population to believe that the current POTUS is illegitimately in office. That's eroding the structure of democracy in the US and potentially elsewhere too. And it may well prompt further unrest
i dont believe that. its more likely the past four years of building up tensions to polarise the US(and some other parts of the westen world)...wo build up the tension? some say Trump alone did, some say the media did, some say an hidden hand did, maybe a lttle of everything... feel free to make up your own theory.......anyway you have your vaccine, and soon a great reset, all will be well....meanwhile enjoy the conspiracy 8-)
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:00 am

And conspiracy theories about the Sars-Cov-19 virus have led many people, both citizens and some decison-makers, to ignore or downplay the danger at crucial times, resulting in more deaths than would otherwise be the case.
yes, i saw the figures of the number of deaths lastbyear in sweden was about 1000ppl more than the everage for a year, and it was about athousand lesser than in 1993...... also to take in consideration, is that the population in sweden has increased considerably since 2015
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:07 am

Arnold Schwarzenegger said it reminded him of Kristallnacht in Germany
that expert was born in austria in 1947......however itt is said his father or was it one of his grandfathers(maybe both)was a fullbloded nazi maybe they told little arnold the story
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Steve James on Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:25 am

feel free to make up your own theory.


Right. And, then you have the videos, and people can make up their own minds. Maybe it was "really" aliens or lizard people? Some preachers said that it was going to inaugurate the second coming of Jesus. Then again, that didn't happen. So, their "theory" was wrong.

Afa Arnold, he says he grew up watching the effects of the Nazi conspiracy theory (of the Eternal Jew) on the people of Germany. Germans killing Germans over a lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAWvl-g_6rg
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Giles on Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:23 am

Once again, Trick, nothing against you personally. At the same time, two of your last three posts - in their sidestepping of logic, their circularity of argument - are quite exemplary of a broader tendency.
So thanks for that, and go in peace.
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:44 pm

. Afa Arnold, he says he grew up watching the effects of the Nazi conspiracy theory (of the Eternal Jew) on the people of Germany.
Arnold Seemingly grew up in Austria
. Growing up, Schwarzenegger had a happy childhood. He played a lot of sports throughout his youth, such as baseball and soccer. However, he really became committed to weight lifting.
https://biography.yourdictionary.com/ar ... -born.html
Using Arnold an (re)tired bodybuilder and actor as some important spokesperson on truth is probably as wobbly as having an businessman as an World leader.....especially since he seem to change his story with the tides of time
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:48 pm

Giles wrote:Once again, Trick, nothing against you personally. At the same time, two of your last three posts - in their sidestepping of logic, their circularity of argument - are quite exemplary of a broader tendency.
So thanks for that, and go in peace.
-bow-

You think too much of it
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Steve James on Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:10 am

Using Arnold an (re)tired bodybuilder and actor as some important spokesperson on truth is probably as wobbly as having an businessman as an World leader.....especially since he seem to change his story with the tides of time


Well, Arnold was Governor of California, probably still considered the greatest body-builder of all time, and speaks English better as a second language as the casino owner game-show host who got elected.

But, that was just an ad hominem having nothing to do with the point which was he said in the video. And, the background for posting what he said was to support the idea that people who believe stupid shit are dangerous. His warning is for people who are wise enough to understand that it's not a joke.
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Steve James on Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:49 am

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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Trick on Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:47 pm

Steve James wrote:
Using Arnold an (re)tired bodybuilder and actor as some important spokesperson on truth is probably as wobbly as having an businessman as an World leader.....especially since he seem to change his story with the tides of time


Well, Arnold was Governor of California, probably still considered the greatest body-builder of all time, and speaks English better as a second language as the casino owner game-show host who got elected.

But, that was just an ad hominem having nothing to do with the point which was he said in the video. And, the background for posting what he said was to support the idea that people who believe stupid shit are dangerous. His warning is for people who are wise enough to understand that it's not a joke.

And to who was he really reaching out to- the dangerous or you and me ? Did he hope to convert the dangerous by terminator gazing into an camera ? ....I actually think Arnold suffers a stroke of narcissism and was reaching out to his mirror image

He’s probably has not much going for him these days, and his history haunt him - Family Nazi connection, History of sexual harassing women, adultery, bodybuilding heydays long gone, less than mediocre actor(although I dig his movies), failed politician.....

As I said he’s probably an narcissist and now basically has nothing for him going anymore, the limelight dimming on him, he seem to be struggling nowadays.....Almost feeling sorry for the guy.
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:00 am

Trick wrote:As I said he’s probably an narcissist and now basically has nothing for him going anymore, the limelight dimming on him, he seem to be struggling nowadays.....Almost feeling sorry for the guy.


I'm sure *checks notes* Arnold Schwarzenegger appreciates your pity.
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Re: The conspiracy theorist's strawman argument structure

Postby Trick on Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:10 am

oragami_itto wrote:
Trick wrote:As I said he’s probably an narcissist and now basically has nothing for him going anymore, the limelight dimming on him, he seem to be struggling nowadays.....Almost feeling sorry for the guy.


I'm sure *checks notes* Arnold Schwarzenegger appreciates your pity.

You think! He actually seem to enjoying himself.....Good for you Arnie....or maybe he’s just acting....good acting Arnold

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/ten ... 60&o=f&l=f

“If I would have listened to the naysayers, I would still be in the Austrian Alps yodeling.” - Arnold
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