Trump and Vacinations

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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby Bill on Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:23 pm

bailewen wrote:I think I was partly thrown by the fact that it was Bill who posted it and how he framed it ("nothing to see here")

I mean on the scale of Trump scandals, this barely qualifies. It's like a 2.0 on the Richter scale. Doesn't even seem newsworthy. And then since I know Bill is very right wing, I guess I sort of assumed it was supposed to imply something stupid about the left? Like some sort of "don't you feel silly now?"

But I just didn't get the joke, if there was one. And I actually don't know how Bill feels about Trump. I mean, his avatar used to be Dick Cheney, so maybe he's a never Trumper or just very anti-trump. I mean, Liz Cheney never got on board the Trump train and although I disagree with Bill on politics, he strikes me more as a "classic conservative" more than one of today's right wing lunatics. Maybe I assumed to much.

I posted it as a response to a meme Steve posted in the Political Humor thread that implied Trump getting vascinated was some sort of outrageous event. Which it wasn't.
As to my politics, I' m a lifelong registered democrat and I consider myself culturally liberal and politically conservative now that the democrats have lost their minds and have embraced the most destructive and racist agenda I've seen in years.
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby Steve James on Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:00 pm

To be clear, I was making fun of the people that Trump suckered into believing the virus was a hoax. But, here's the meme.
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby Steve James on Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:08 pm

now that the democrats have lost their minds and have embraced the most destructive and racist agenda I've seen in years.


OK, let's cancel racism.


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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby LaoDan on Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:39 pm

Trick wrote:... the Crispr DNA altering Covid vaccine...

This does not make sense to me. It indicates that you don't understand CRISPER technology, vaccines, DNA replication, transcription of mRNA, or translation of proteins etc. The statement appears to be intended to misinform people who don't have the knowledge to realize the absurdity of the statement. It only seems to be intended to induce fear or skepticism about the vaccine with the intent of discouraging people from taking it.
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:02 pm

A lifelong registered Dem who has posted anti Dem propaganda as long as I can remember? And what does it mean to be politically conservative but socially liberal? Do politics not affect the social? I'm also honestly curious to know more about this most destructive and racist agenda. Is it anti-white or something?
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby bailewen on Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:59 pm

nah man.

mind blown over here. I completely misread Bill...well, maybe 75% misread him.

"culturally liberal and politically conservative" is maybe the most unusual combination I have ever seen. Politically liberal but culturally conservative is basically most of "the black vote" (whatever that is, but it's always broken down in various polls). Black folks tend to vote overwhelmingly democrat but, AFAIK, are, on average, more religious and more culturally conservative than most democrats.

Politically conservative how? The main axis are usually cultural and fiscal. Culturally liberal just leaves fiscal conservative, neither party is that these days, although I would argue historically the democrats have been way more fiscally responsible. Bad marketing, but in terms of just results, republicans have always run up the debt in my lifetime and only democrats have brought it back down. With the latest "COVD relief bill", we'll see. But just for reference, it's costing almost exactly the same amount as Trump's 2017 tax cuts.
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby Bill on Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:28 am

I feel the democrats moved away from me instead of the other way around. They used to be about helping the poor get back up on their own 2 feet. Now, it seems, the dems want to prolong black and poor folks suffering so that that are always dependent on the dems, to prolong dem power.
So maybe conservative isn't the best term for where I'm at.
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:15 am

Bill wrote:the most destructive and racist agenda I've seen in years.


Could you elaborate on that?
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby Giles on Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:33 pm

LaoDan wrote:
Trick wrote:... the Crispr DNA altering Covid vaccine...

This does not make sense to me. It indicates that you don't understand CRISPER technology, vaccines, DNA replication, transcription of mRNA, or translation of proteins etc. The statement appears to be intended to misinform people who don't have the knowledge to realize the absurdity of the statement. It only seems to be intended to induce fear or skepticism about the vaccine with the intent of discouraging people from taking it.


In Trick's case, a major lack of information and understanding, especially with regard to science-related issues, never seems to inhibit him from making sweeping statements.
I think for him it's more about stirring the pot and having fun doing it.
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby jimmy on Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:16 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:what does it mean to be politically conservative but socially liberal?
bailewen wrote:"culturally liberal and politically conservative" is maybe the most unusual combination I have ever seen.



??? wrote:small bureaucracy
minimal taxes
self-sufficient and locally governing confederated authorities
let me keep my firearms
quit telling me how to live my g-ddamned life
+
women's rights
reproductive rights
LGBTQ rights
racial justice now
please start telling me how to live my g-damned life if i'm fucking up yours


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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:11 pm

jimmy wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:what does it mean to be politically conservative but socially liberal?
bailewen wrote:"culturally liberal and politically conservative" is maybe the most unusual combination I have ever seen.



??? wrote:small bureaucracy
minimal taxes
self-sufficient and locally governing confederated authorities
let me keep my firearms
quit telling me how to live my g-ddamned life
+
women's rights
reproductive rights
LGBTQ rights
racial justice now
please start telling me how to live my g-damned life if i'm fucking up yours




I mean, that's cute until you think it out past the anarcho-capitalist hillbilly fantasy and ground it in a modicum of historical understanding.

The history of progress regarding women's rights, reproductive rights, racial equality, and so much more wouldn't have been possible without "big government." Desegregation had to be forced on conservatives by the military, for Christ's sake.

The old claim of fiscally conservative and socially liberal has always been a lie, as Republicans haven't been fiscally conservative since they started making the claims. Oh, and they also aren't really socially liberal. All you have to do is look at the Obama monkey jokes that used to populate this very forum.

Libertarianism (in America) is simply not a serious political or socially realistic stance. Most people grow out of Ayn Rand in jr high.
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby jimmy on Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:25 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:The history of progress regarding women's rights, reproductive rights, racial equality, and so much more wouldn't have been possible without "big government"

so why have so many indigenous communities been able to work out matrilineal clan management systems, inter-ethnic peacekeeping sodalities, and socially acceptable gender fluidity in the absence of top-down hierarchical control?
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby bailewen on Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:43 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Libertarianism (in America) is simply not a serious political or socially realistic stance. Most people grow out of Ayn Rand in jr high.


I never went though and Ayn Rand phase, but I went ahead an took the dive and listened to Atlas Shrugged on Audible last month. It was an especially hilarious time and context to get exposed to her ridiculous theories. The entire theme of the book is super focused on the railroad as the ultimate symbol of free market capitalism and the whole plot is sort of centered on the existential threat posed by the the govt nationalizing the railways. Sounds good in theory but, massive irony here, I am listening to the book here in China, where the high speed rail is fucking awesome. It makes USA rail look like some sort of Stalinist joke.

It was also in the middle of COVID, where free market America totally screwed the pooch but the Chinese economy was just humming along like normal.

But seriously, the railway thing was the biggest joke. Chinese high speed rail is truly amazing. Kicks ass over domestic air travel. So Atlas Shrugged was decent entertainment, sort of 50 Shades of Grey but for capitalism, but also sort of "nice story bruh." lol
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:19 am

jimmy wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:The history of progress regarding women's rights, reproductive rights, racial equality, and so much more wouldn't have been possible without "big government"

so why have so many indigenous communities been able to work out matrilineal clan management systems, inter-ethnic peacekeeping sodalities, and socially acceptable gender fluidity in the absence of top-down hierarchical control?


Just because indigenous communities have worked out superior ways to self govern over hundreds of years of their simple lives doesn't mean you can just eliminate the government in a developed nation and expect everybody to get along functionally. Without strong government regulation capitalism becomes extremely predatory and exploitive. I mean more than it is already, were talking toddlers in coal mines here.
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Re: Trump and Vacinations

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:27 am

jimmy wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:The history of progress regarding women's rights, reproductive rights, racial equality, and so much more wouldn't have been possible without "big government"

so why have so many indigenous communities been able to work out matrilineal clan management systems, inter-ethnic peacekeeping sodalities, and socially acceptable gender fluidity in the absence of top-down hierarchical control?


A number of problems undermine this question. First, what makes you think Democratic or collectivist organizations are "top down?" I would think of it as the opposite. Second, while there certainly is tremendous diversity among indigenous peoples, the opposite of what you describe also existed in these same and adjacent communities. Furthermore, how do imagine these communities were organized? Sans hierarchy of any sort? No, there would generally be a top down approach taken in a wide array of decision making.

And, there is also the issue of scale. I am critical of anarcho-Capitalism because there can be no such thing. It's just won't work. Anarcho-syndicalism on the other hand can and does work on local and regional scales (eg: Mondragon). You are acting as if I am advocating for some sort of fascist state, which is a pretty tall straw man.

There is plenty to draw from indigenous traditions, especially as we are hopefully beginning to rethink how we interact with the enviornment. But, drawing on discrete historical precedents of small communities won't necessarily transfer to glocal conditions without considerable tweaks.

The fact remains, without government reaction to popular movements, there would be no civil rights, universal suffereage, child labor laws, weekends, limited work weeks, environmental regulations, or so many of the things we take for granted.
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