The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

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The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Bao on Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:17 am

Xinjiang's population increased by 13.9% from 2010 to 2018 to 24.8 million, and the Uighur population increased by 25% to 12.7, with a much higher rate than the general birthrate in China. Some baseless allegations without any kind of base or proofs from companies about forced labor in Xinjiang have had great impact on the Chinese population. They all stopped buying things from H&M, and more companies as Nike and Burberry have great problems with their sale. They Chinese are all very much fed up with all of the fabricated lies from the West about Xinjiang.



Someone sensible about the "forced labor" and sanctions:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s6UDgf4e0E





Some more sensible voices:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSRoiMA2PBM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAb9EcH8oVo




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNmUjDesag4




How the Xinjiang cotton industry really looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnjUeo7cj50



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk2h9V6HuAI




H&M in China


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2UIg5wolnY



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-JeuqN1FfY

Last edited by Bao on Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby yeniseri on Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:59 am

The detention is real!
When I was in Sweden, H&M was popular clothing destination so I am sure that mainalnd propaganda is gathering its citizens to "boycott" and attemtp to force Swden to stop showing solaridity for these sanctioned and detained Uighurs in Xinjiang.
The Central government (Beijing) strategy of sending Han citizens to areas it wants to control and maintain hegermony is well known (See Tibet!). Overwhelm Xinjiang and then say majority is under Han control has been the rule to enforce a One Mind propaganda campaign for rule. It hans't failed, yet.

Frontline did a segment on Xinjiang 3 or so months ago showing the use of facial recognition technology in China specifically western provinces in China and how that technology is being used i.e. crossing borders to USA, Canada as part of technology transfer and efficient control of the citizenry. ;D
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby GrahamB on Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:19 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-56586655

The BBC's Beijing correspondent John Sudworth has left China and moved to Taiwan following pressure and threats from the Chinese authorities.
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Finny on Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:48 pm

Bao wrote: They Chinese are all very much fed up with all of the fabricated lies from the West about Xinjiang.



lol.
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Daniel-san on Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:26 pm

The cost of speaking up against China, by Joel Gunter, BBC News:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56563449
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Daniel-san on Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:03 pm

GrahamB wrote:The BBC's Beijing correspondent John Sudworth has left China and moved to Taiwan following pressure and threats from the Chinese authorities.


It's a familiar story:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/08/aus ... eave-china

Others have not been so lucky:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-31/ ... i/12615362

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-25/ ... e/12089804
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby GrahamB on Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:22 am

In a further blow to Bao's credibility, UK MPs declare China is committing genocide against Uyghurs in Xinjiang.

"Nigel Adams, the Asia minister, admitted there was credible evidence of widespread use of forced labour, internment camps, and the targeting of ethnic groups. The actions amounted to clear and systematic abuse of human rights, but he said the UK’s longstanding position was that determining genocide is for “competent national and international courts”."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... n-xinjiang
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Michael on Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:01 pm

Xinjiang's population increased by 13.9% from 2010 to 2018 to 24.8 million, and the Uighur population increased by 25% to 12.7, with a much higher rate than the general birthrate in China.


A relevant factoid: the one-child policy did not apply to China's ethnic minorities, including Uighurs, who were also given other advantages in addition to not being restricted on their number of births.

I don't know what the stated reason was for this by the government, but in Guangzhou (and I assume other eastern Chinese cities where migrants flocked for jobs) Uighurs were semi-untouchable by the police, who would not punish or prosecute them for minor offenses, like petty theft and pickpocketing. Locals in Guangzhou interpreted the policy that it was intended to damage their local culture by making the place chaotic with thieves, who operated with impunity from some time in the early 90's through 2008/2010 when the Olympics came to Beijing and the Asian Games came to Guangzhou. That was when the police finally clamped down on the criminal gangs and told them if they robbed a foreigner and injured him, they would get 10 years instead of the usual nothing to 8 months. No such penalty if you concuss another Chinese.

In fact, if you were a dumb foreigner, like my friend who called the police on a Uighur thief who tried to steal his wife's purse, the police would punish you more than the accused. In that case, they held the thief for half and hour then let her go with no punishment, but made my buddy and his wife stay in the station for five hours. This was not just because the girl was a Uighur, the police usually behaved this way when you interrupted their tea and smoke breaks. Unless you were a party member or had some other influence, then the police would investigate your report.

#stillmissingchina
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Bao on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:18 pm

Thanks Michael. Happy to see someone making sense.

In high school, my wife went to a Chinese Muslim school. Her father put her there because the school and the class was one of the best in the whole province, and the class had a couple of the very best and renowned teachers. The Muslim community had great resources. She recalled times when someone in the Muslim community had died, then the entourage filled the whole streets and they got late to school. The school also had two different kitchens and dining places so that the Muslims didn’t have to smell pork. The society always took great consideration to the minorities and their customs.
Last edited by Bao on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Bao on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:20 pm

GrahamB wrote:"Nigel Adams, the Asia minister, admitted there was credible evidence of widespread use of forced labour, internment camps, and the targeting of ethnic groups.


Every single report and article stating proofs about "forced labor" in China can be tracked back to this source:

"Beyond the Camps: Beijing’s Long-Term Scheme of Coercive Labor, Poverty Alleviation and Social Control in Xinjiang."
Published in Journal of Political Risk, Vol. 7, No. 12, December 2019

It's written by Adrian Zenz as a paper ordered directly from the US foreign ministry. In fact, he has written most of what is used as "proofs" of Genocide in Xinjiang.

However, in "Beyond the Camps..." He states that not only Uighur is subject to the presumed forced labor, but all ethnical groups are targeted. (So towards what group is a presumed genocide pointed at? )

He writes:
"...impossible to clearly determine whether a labor- intensive manufacturing product in Xinjiang will be made with labor from former detainees or not. "


Nothing is possible to clearly determinate in his report and there are only speculations around figures.

A series of spreadsheets titled “poverty alleviation groups” that were produced by local government authorities from Asilanbage Township in Yarkand (Shache) County, Kashgar Prefecture, list the employment situation of thousands of rural Uyghur residents....
...Of the 43 persons with a listed monthly wage, about two thirds (28) only earned 800 RMB per month, 7 were shown to earn 1,000 RMB, and 9 earned 2,600 RMB or more. The average wage was only 1,228 RMB. In contrast, public documents suggest that such workers can earn between 1,500 and 3,500 RMB per month.
Interestingly, the average age of those with a wage of 1,000 RMB and less was much higher than that of those with a wage over 1,000 RMB (43 versus 26 years). ... The two persons listed as working in a “VTIC satellite factory” had average monthly earnings of 667 and 1,000 RMB respectively."


So these possibly forced labourers have a salary, he knows this at least. And the rest is speculations and "unclear".

... It is unclear whether this form of employment is in fact much more voluntary than that of VTIC graduates.


So he is not clear at all if it's forced, involuntary or voluntary. ...But he knows that they get payed

And his conclusions are that there are no proofs that there is forced labor, but that it is china's task to prove that there's no forced labor.

Before long, it will be up to Chinese companies, and to China as a whole nation, to prove to other countries that their exported products do not involve any form of coerced ethnic minority labor. ... Meanwhile, western and other foreign companies must fully divest their supply chains not only from Xinjiang, but also from Chinese companies with significant operations in that region.


And this is all proof we have of forced labor in Xinjiang, made up by pure speculations from figures, ending with a suggestion to boycott all production in Xinjiang, in a report ordered by the Foreign Ministry at the peak of the Economical Warfare between China and the USA.

So this is what Nigel Adams refers to as credible evidence of widespread use of forced labour. I don't believe that he is particularly credible.

Edit: oh, and BTW every Xinjiang company mentioned in Zenz’ report have gone together to sue him for defamation. It will soon be in trial.
Last edited by Bao on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Steve James on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:47 pm

Is there anything that would convince you? Or, an experiment, take the other side. Could you prove yourself wrong?
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Bao on Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:02 pm

Steve James wrote:Is there anything that would convince you?


There’s no genocide, not even a tiny little bit of it. I’ve stated my reasons for my view several times. You haven’t read the original reports that started all this nonsense. Do so and maybe we’ll have something to talk about.

I edited and added to a shorter post further up. You might find it interesting.
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Steve James on Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:19 pm

If there's no way to convince you otherwise, why argue? I have no idea what is or isn't going on. I've read your rebuttals.
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Bao on Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:06 pm

Steve James wrote:If there's no way to convince you otherwise, why argue?


Ok. You are correct, it’s unnecessary to argue.

Steve James wrote:. I've read your rebuttals.


I added something personal in a short post a couple of posts above.
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Re: The Xinjiang Cotton industry and sanctions

Postby Michael on Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:45 pm

Bao wrote:Thanks Michael. Happy to see someone making sense.


The reason I know there's no Uighur genocide and that the CCP would never do that is their organs are too valuable.

;D :o :D
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