History - Exterminate All The Brutes

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby gzregorz on Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:28 pm

Love that show but haven't finished season 4.

So far season 2 was my favorite.

I will keep an eye out for it.
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
gzregorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6133
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Usona

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby Quigga on Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:05 am

I'm not watching it -because- I don't want to waste my time :) If you want to exterminate all the brutes you'll need even bigger brutes who might not even know what they are :) Guess it's not my job to change those who don't want to change, can't help them.
What's between you and the world
Quigga
Anjing
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby gzregorz on Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:00 pm

Thanks for making my point.

Exterminate all the brutes was a slogan of the colonizers, used by the colonizers.

Yeah, it is pointless talking to someone about a movie series they haven't seen.

A bit like a student raising their hand in class to comment on a book they haven't read.

Glad you agree with me.
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
gzregorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6133
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Usona

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby Quigga on Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:13 am

Woops ok :P I'm still glad colonialism happenend. I mean, can you imagine another course of history? I can't. Nothing stopped Africans from starting globalisation from their continent. Hmm, I wonder why they didn't take iniative?

I can recommend 'Pragmatic Idealism' by Kalergi, a guy who is regarded as a 'founding father' of the Europa idea (actually the founder of the Paneuropean Union). You're probably not going to read it, so discussion is pointless :o

Come to think of it, I could start a video series reading it aloud and explaining.
What's between you and the world
Quigga
Anjing
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby edededed on Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:52 am

Quigga wrote:Woops ok :P I'm still glad colonialism happenend. I mean, can you imagine another course of history? I can't. Nothing stopped Africans from starting globalisation from their continent. Hmm, I wonder why they didn't take iniative?

I can recommend 'Pragmatic Idealism' by Kalergi, a guy who is regarded as a 'founding father' of the Europa idea (actually the founder of the Paneuropean Union). You're probably not going to read it, so discussion is pointless :o

Come to think of it, I could start a video series reading it aloud and explaining.


Whoa dude - certainly history could have gone many ways, much of it is just serendipity and luck. Colonialism is just like any other nasty - theft, rape (see Weinstein), fraud (see Madoff), etc. It happens because:
- Want
- Can
- Justify

For colonialism: (generally) Europeans wanted gold/silver/spices/etc.; they had military power; they justified it to themselves as civilizing the people and Christening them. Today, the justifications look less and less legitimate, and so now we look back and question it.

Africans just did not have the 3 parts of the triangle in place (for better or for worse).
User avatar
edededed
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4035
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:21 am

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby gzregorz on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:00 am

Quigga wrote:I can recommend 'Pragmatic Idealism' by Kalergi, a guy who is regarded as a 'founding father' of the Europa idea (actually the founder of the Paneuropean Union). You're probably not going to read it, so discussion is pointless :o

Come to think of it, I could start a video series reading it aloud and explaining.


Feel free to start your thread. Unlike you, I won't make any attempts to hijack your discussion because I won't be participating in any way.
Last edited by gzregorz on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
gzregorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6133
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Usona

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby gzregorz on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:04 am

edededed wrote:For colonialism: (generally) Europeans wanted gold/silver/spices/etc.; they had military power; they justified it to themselves as civilizing the people and Christening them. Today, the justifications look less and less legitimate, and so now we look back and question it.


Also sometimes this exploitation was done on Europeans themselves by Europeans.

How anyone could take pride in any of this, whether Europeans on Europeans or others, is beyond me.

I suppose the question becomes, if one is proud of what the colonial powers did to the world are they also proud of what was done to Ireland?

Watch "The Great Irish Famine - documentary (1996)" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/0DK-GoVkRjw
Last edited by gzregorz on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
gzregorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6133
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Usona

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby gzregorz on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:35 am

(Back to the discussion.)

Hey Steve,

Forgot to mention that Trial of Tears, season 1 episode 3 is on Black Indians. The story is deep and has interviews with people who identify as Black and Indian.

I think you would enjoy it. It is an identity few historians cover.
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
gzregorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6133
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Usona

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby Steve James on Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:46 am

Hey Greg, I wrote a book for my students that has a chapter on that topic. Before the Southeastern Indians were forcibly remove, many had Black slaves and others accepted runaways. Some Indians refused to submit and fled into the swamps of Florida where they became Seminoles. In the Caribbean, African slaves fled to the mountains and were called Cimarrones by the Spanish, and Maroons by the British. In Brazil, even Europeans who were being enslaved or impoverished by the Dutch, or French, or Portuguese ran away to communities called Quilombos.

Jamaican Maroons don't consider themselves the same as other Black people on the island. It's Maroons got independence from Britain before the US revolution. The trade of was that they had to return any slaves who escaped or tried to join them.

Then there are the Garifuna and Garinagu of Central America, who are descendants of shipwrecked slave ships who married with Arawaks. Their culture is Arawak and African, though they'll speak English or Spanish. Look up Black Carib.

Anyway, it's interesting that only Africans were mentioned in the colonization talk. What happened to the Indians? Are they better off. What about India or China? Why do people who have it good at home leave? To improve the world? I'd say it was war, poverty, pestilence, destruction of the natural environment, over population, and greed.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19959
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby Steve James on Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:11 am

Oh yeah, Rick Santorum made news by saying that Native Americans haven't contributed to US culture. Well, that illustrates a typical ignorance. There's a thing called food culture (a part of material culture), and Thanksgiving is all Indian. Europeans eat goose. Almost everything USAmericans eat has corn. How about tobacco and chocolate? Santorum also stated that there was nothing here until "we" got here. You know, it was just barren land and wilderness. I.e., there was no one here, and the resources weren't being used. Of course, there was the Iroquois Confederacy in the north and the Aztec empire. They were here and doing OK.

Well, that's why "we" need Native American history month. Otherwise, we have to take what the ignorant tell us is our history. FTS.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19959
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby Steve James on Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:26 am

More for Greg. Here's a specific.
Image

The Black Seminole Scouts were a U.S. Army unit organized in 1870. The men, descendants of the Seminole of Florida and Black people who had escaped from slavery, were known as unparalleled trackers and fearless combatants.

On this day in 1875, three scouts saved the life of their commanding officer in a battle with the Comanche or Lipan Apache in southern Val Verde County; they were Isaac Payne, John Ward, and Pompey Factor. For this action they received the Medal of Honor.

The Black Seminole Scouts were stationed in Fort Clark near Brackettville. The Old Guardhouse Museum highlights the legacy of the scouts and the Buffalo Soldiers who were also stationed here, while a cemetery provides the final resting place for a number of scouts, including the Medal of Honor recipients.

A community of the original scouts’ descendants still live in Brackettville today. Through annual reunions and preserving the Gullah dialect of their forebears, they stay connected to their unique heritage.


Check the Texas Historical Society. Btw, I only ever use the silly term Indian that Columbus called the people he met for convenience. It's much better to speak about specific peoples (in the Americas and elsewhere).
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19959
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby gzregorz on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:32 pm

Steve James wrote:Anyway, it's interesting that only Africans were mentioned in the colonization talk. What happened to the Indians? Are they better off. What about India or China? Why do people who have it good at home leave? To improve the world? I'd say it was war, poverty, pestilence, destruction of the natural environment, over population, and greed.


My point exactly.

Some seem to think that series is about blaming everything on Europe or people of European descent. When actually the series also discusses African and Haitian dictatorships in the episode 1 alone. But obviously the focus is on the big fish because they held the most power and benefitted the most from invading foreign lands.
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
gzregorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6133
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Usona

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby gzregorz on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:53 pm

Thanks for all the information. I spent some time in St. Vincent and the Grenadines where I learned about the Black Caribs. They have a fascinating history. Would make for an excellent movie! As I recall Africans also came over on a slave ship which crashed into the islands in storm and the natives took them in. I might have mixed up my histories though.

What is the name of the book.

Steve James wrote:Oh yeah, Rick Santorum made news by saying that Native Americans haven't contributed to US culture. Well, that illustrates a typical ignorance. There's a thing called food culture (a part of material culture), and Thanksgiving is all Indian. Europeans eat goose. Almost everything USAmericans eat has corn. How about tobacco and chocolate? Santorum also stated that there was nothing here until "we" got here. You know, it was just barren land and wilderness. I.e., there was no one here, and the resources weren't being used. Of course, there was the Iroquois Confederacy in the north and the Aztec empire. They were here and doing OK.

Well, that's why "we" need Native American history month. Otherwise, we have to take what the ignorant tell us is our history. FTS.


Santorum isn't a surprise. I think it explains why Trump and his supporters loved his attacks on Warren. I even know Europeans who only know of Warren because of Trump's attacks to the point where they even bought into it.

Yet it points to an even bigger issue and problem as illustrated in Trail of Tears. If someone has a drop of African blood they are considered black in the US but with native ancestory (which I have some of) it is the exact opposite. With native ancestry unless you are 100% you are not considered native. (I recall the slur half breed on Fargo.)

Yet as with Warren, what my European friends did not know, a lot of Americans identify as native or part native and they are correct but somehow the culture here wants to deny them that. Their lands were stolen, they were forcibly removed or shot, their culture and language decimated (with a few exceptions as of 2021) and even today people who have native pride continue to mocked and ridiculed. Yet if someone has some Irish or Polish blood and claims to be Irish or Polish no one would think anything of it.

Seems that Santorum is not alone.
Last edited by gzregorz on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There is more wisdom in your body than in your deepest philosophy." - Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
gzregorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6133
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:45 pm
Location: Usona

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby Steve James on Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:01 pm

Hey, the book was for students in my Africana-Americana Folklore course. I did it that way because they were always from different parts of the Americas and the rest of the world. They were often poor, and what we covered wasn't available in a single text. So, I divided it up into units as pdfs. Eventually, it became the basis for the Department's folklore course, and an introduction to the various disciplines in the department. I.e., history, art, music, literature, and culture in general. One premise is that folklore is the education you don't get in school, which is usually more essential for survival. There's the story you read in schoolbooks, and then there's "your" story. For example, the importance of the kola nut :). Because of the scope, much of the course is audio-visual. Anyway, I can send you the pdfs. The introduction will explain the logic and will set you up.

There's a good book "Black Indians" on that specific subject. Yeah, the Black Caribs are a specific example of "marronage." The story about the shipwrecks can't be confirmed, but the St Vincentians believe it. There are maroons in almost every country in the Americas. But, in the US, there's there's black and white, and the rest don't matter.

Afa racial identification among Indians, it really depends on the people/tribe. Indians in the Americas didn't rape because most felt they would be responsible for the offspring. If they took women, they made them wive, and their children grew up Indian. Kwana Parker was a famous chief whose mother had been captured. In fact, captured women who were freed often preferred to go back to the Indians. Ok, some might call it Stockholm syndrome, or might prefer to think it was so. However, there's a famous John Wayne movie (the Searchers) where he goes to find a girl who's been living with Indians just to kill her. I.e., she'd be better dead.

Anyway, anyone taken into the tribe would become one of the people. Otoh, being Black wasn't so good for Estevanico who, with Cabeza de Vaca, was the first to explore the Southwest. Estevanico was considered a shaman by some of the people he met, but one tribe --perhaps fearful of his influence on another, or as an emissary for a Spanish expedition-- saw him as bad luck and killed him. (Look him up.)

Oh, Santorum, well look up Squanto and Samoset. Btw, the Pilgrims did not come for religious freedom because they didn't have it in England. They came because they felt there was too much religious freedom there. King James had just written a book on demonology. Look that up too. Not that I think you doubt me, Greg. I used to tell all my students to check anything I said. They have probably never read those things in the "history" books they're given. We have children being told for twelve years that Columbus sailed on the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria, and no one --especially not Africans-- knew the world was round.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19959
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Exterminate All The Brutes

Postby Steve James on Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:06 pm

OOps, forgot. The reason the Puritans hated King James (yeah, that one) is because in his book, he argued against "Christians" burning witches. No shit.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 19959
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

PreviousNext

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

cron