History - Exterminate All The Brutes

[Steve James]

First hand account of first meeting.

Mourt's Relation is a 1622 account of the early days of Plymouth Colony. It describes Samoset's visit thus:

Friday the 16th a fair warm day towards; this morning we determined to conclude of the military orders, which we had begun to consider of before but were interrupted by the savages, as we mentioned formerly; and whilst we were busied hereabout, we were interrupted again, for there presented himself a savage, which caused an alarm. He very boldly came all alone and along the houses straight to the rendezvous, where we intercepted him, not suffering him to go in, as undoubtedly he would, out of his boldness. He saluted us in English, and bade us welcome, for he had learned some broken English among the Englishmen that came to fish at Monchiggon, and knew by name the most of the captains, commanders, and masters that usually come. He was a man free in speech, so far as he could express his mind, and of a seemly carriage. We questioned him of many things; he was the first savage we could meet withal. He said he was not of these parts, but of Morattiggon, and one of the sagamores or lords thereof, and had been eight months in these parts, it lying hence a day's sail with a great wind, and five days by land. He discoursed of the whole country, and of every province, and of their sagamores, and their number of men, and strength. The wind being to rise a little, we cast a horseman's coat about him, for he was stark naked, only a leather about his waist, with a fringe about a span long, or little more; he had a bow and two arrows, the one headed, and the other unheaded. He was a tall straight man, the hair of his head black, long behind, only short before, none on his face at all; he asked some beer, but we gave him strong water and biscuit, and butter, and cheese, and pudding, and a piece of mallard, all which he liked well, and had been acquainted with such amongst the English. He told us the place where we now live is called Patuxet, and that about four years ago all the inhabitants died of an extraordinary plague, and there is neither man, woman, nor child remaining, as indeed we have found none, so as there is none to hinder our possession, or to lay claim unto it. All the afternoon we spent in communication with him; we would gladly have been rid of him at night, but he was not willing to go this night. Then we thought to carry him on shipboard, wherewith he was well content, and went into the shallop, but the wind was high and the water scant, that it could not return back. We lodged him that night at Stephen Hopkins' house, and watched him.

The next day he went away back to the Massasoits, from whence he said he came, who are our next bordering neighbors. They are sixty strong, as he saith. The Nausets are as near southeast of them, and are a hundred strong, and those were they of whom our people were encountered, as before related. They are much incensed and provoked against the English, and about eight months ago slew three Englishmen, and two more hardly escaped by flight to Monchiggon; they were Sir Ferdinando Gorges his men, as this savage told us, as he did likewise of the huggery, that is, fight, that our discoverers had with the Nausets, and of our tools that were taken out of the woods, which we willed him should be brought again, otherwise, we would right ourselves. These people are ill affected towards the English, by reason of one Hunt, a master of a ship, who deceived the people, and got them under color of trucking with them, twenty out of this very place where we inhabit, and seven men from Nauset, and carried them away, and sold them for slaves like a wretched man (for twenty pound a man) that cares not what mischief he doth for his profit.

Saturday, in the morning we dismissed the savage, and gave him a knife, a bracelet, and a ring; he promised within a night or two to come again, and to bring with him some of the Massasoits, our neighbors, with such beavers' skins as they had to truck with us.[7]

[Quigga]

Only adding that more often it's more interesting to see why one is preoccupied with a topic or opinion than that topic or opinion itself.

Edit: removed something condescending I wasn't proud of.

[gzregorz]

Only adding that more often it's more interesting to see why one is preoccupied with a topic or opinion than that topic or opinion itself.

Edit: removed something condescending I wasn't proud of.

More interesting to find out why someone would comment and have such strong opinions on a brand new documentary series they haven't even seen.

Kalergi right?

The Kalergi Plan, or sometimes called the Coudenhove-Kalergi Conspiracy, is a far-right, anti-semitic, white nationalist conspiracy theory, which states that a plot to mix white Europeans with other races via immigration was constructed by Austrian-Japanese politician Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi and promoted in aristocratic European social circles.

Like I said, feel free to start your own youtube channel and thread showing the world where your heart is.

[Quigga]

Yep, Kalergi Note though that I said read the original version, not listen to crazy conspiracies

---

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and world view...

[gzregorz]

Go ahead and start your own thread. But not here. This is a thread on Raoul Peck's work and not Kalgeri.

With all due respect, yoj asked why people would be interested in this topic and the answer is because many of us understand that if you want to understand the present then you start with the past. One can't begin to understand what is happening in present day Northern Ireland without understanding the history of Ireland. Or Putin without understanding the history of Russia and Xi without understanding the history of China,.etc...

Start your channel and your thread but I won't be there. I am not looking for a discussion or debate. I am interested in hearing what others who have actually watched the series have to say. I am not interested in Kalergi so I won't be there.

I added history to the title of the thread to answer your question.

[Quigga]

.

[gzregorz]

Needless to say you can't understand the US without a full and complete history of the US. Rauol Peck's work was originally going to be on the US but he realized that this was much bigger than the US. He discusses dictators, oppression and geniocide around the world.

I think I have all said all I wanted to say on the topic and I can correspond with the professor off of board. Been interesting seeing people's reactions...

[Quigga]

Sorry if I harrassed you.

[Steve James]

The Kalergi Plan, or sometimes called the Coudenhove-Kalergi Conspiracy, is a far-right, anti-semitic, white nationalist conspiracy theory, which states that a plot to mix white Europeans with other races via immigration was constructed by Austrian-Japanese politician Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi and promoted in aristocratic European social circles.

Hmm, but what about all the "European" men who have children with Asian women? Are they part of the plan?

[gzregorz]

Sorry if I harrassed you.

Thank you.

I appreciate that we didn't turn this into another argument online.

I think history is worth looking into even if it's not our own.

I remember hearing some of the Irish potato famine in school as kid but to be honest I didn't really understand how brutal it was until that documentary. I also wasn't aware that the ticket to the US was the most expensive with Australia the least expensive and Canada in the middle among people who lost everything and had nothing. I was aware that the Irish became cannon fodder in the US civil war on both sides dying in a country they just arrived in. But if wasn't for history I would have probably just assumed that the Irish were just another group of people who came from Europe and how wrong I would have been.

I appreciate our discussion even if we disagree. Thanks again and likewise, I apologize if I offended anyone. I certainly didn't mean to.

[Quigga]

Steve, no idea. I wasn't referencing the 'Kalergi Plan' but instead the source book for this conspiracy theory which goes far beyond 'race mixing is bad'. Can't help people who automatically think this is the only conclusion of facts presented in the book 'Practical Idealism / Praktischer Idealismus'. I think it's weird that I couldn't find an English translation of this source book without the subtitle added 'conspiracy theory; destruction of Europeans and whites etc'.

It's been a while since I've read it, but the author's theory of why colonialism started in Europe was smth like:

1) The harsh seasons require considerable forethought, else one would die in winter.
2) The climate and environment was of high importance in deciding what tools/abilities of a human being need more usage than other tools/abilities.
3) Christianity is a religion that lends itself to being 'exported' because it's pretty much independent of geography and outside scenery, unlike nature based religions and beliefs.

Speaking of my own persona - when you find all the materials to make a bomb at someone's home, doesn't mean that that person is a terrorist

I want to keep good manners and try to be as respectful and civil as possible

[Quigga]

He also warned of Buddhism making people in the West complacent and lazy, calling it the 'Asian Threat'. It's very interesting to me how accurate his descriptions of various flows in society turned out to be.

(Maybe I'm just looking for someone to talk to... )

[Steve James]

Well, we know why Columbus left Spain --via Africa. It was about getting to India and the spice trade in order to make Spain rich and pay for the Reconquista (i.e., the expulsion of the Moors from the Iberian Peninsula. They'd been there since 711 ce). He didn't intend to spread Christianity east because Christianity started in the east. Unfortunately, he couldn't travel east to India and China because of the aforementioned Moors, who still controlled North Africa and required tariffs for anyone to travel through their territory. So, as we know, he traveled west following the westward wind (the same that brings hurricanes) until he landed somewhere he thought was the Indies.

Anyway, he didn't find spice on the islands he went to, but he found people. He claimed the islands for Spain, and said the people could be easily controlled. To his surprise, the Taino people he met had collected gold from their rivers. So, although he didn't find spices, he reported that there was gold. Unfortunately, though, there wasn't really that much in the islands. However, in addition to gold, he promised the King souls.

Hey, you can read his actual letters, translated or in Latin or Spanish. Then there's the whole thing about what the Spaniards did to the Tainos, especially the women --since they never brought any, until later. What they did bring was soldiers --remember the 800 year Reconquista? Spain was full of unemployed soldiers and plenty of weapons, and there was the promise of untold riches. The Tainos that were left were slick. They told the Spaniards there was an El Dorado further north. Soldiers like Cortez and Pizzaro organized expeditions and eventually came upon the Aztecs --who had plenty of gold.

These guys didn't go to colonize or stay there. They went to get rich with gold, and then go back home. I mean, what were they going to spend the gold on? It was worth much more in Spain. Of course, that's why there's so much gold in Spanish (and European) churches. Think about it. Are there lots of gold mines in Europe? or places where precious stones are found? Where do the Crown Jewels come from?

Anyway, people didn't colonize to stay until the plantation, mining, and ranching enterprises started. The Indian grass --sugar cane-- could grow like crazy in the Caribbean (West Indies), and the natives smoked something called tobacco, which was, like chocolate, a popular and profitable export. Unfortunately, cultivating sugar was labor intensive and that's why the importation of Africans began. This was all business.

All of this can be confirmed using first-hand written reports. Columbus's Letters are a blast. Why? Well, other than curiosity, to argue. I'd say that Columbus might deserve a statue in the Dominican Republic or Cuba; but he had nothing to do with the founding of the USA. He's about as meaningful as Leif Erikson, who arrived 500 years earlier. The first European to get to the continent is irrelevant, since there were millions of people here before.

[Steve James]

Hey, about Buddhism . It's hard to find a Christian who's not against some religion at some time, even other Christian. I've heard Protestants say that Catholicism is fake, and plenty of people who call the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses are cults. People have told me that taichichuan and yoga allow demonic spirits to enter through "inspiration."

Meh

[edededed]

He also warned of Buddhism making people in the West complacent and lazy, calling it the 'Asian Threat'. It's very interesting to me how accurate his descriptions of various flows in society turned out to be.

(Maybe I'm just looking for someone to talk to... )

Any religion that is focused on something outside of material gain could be called "complacent and lazy" by materialists.

Ancient Christianity would have been in the same bucket (e.g. Jesus telling his followers to throw away everything and follow him). But religion is pliable and adapted to culture's wonts - today, much of what we call Christianity now has become linked with capitalism and material gain (e.g. "prosperity gospel," Mormonism, etc.)

Buddhism is the same - in ancient times, the monks were homeless wanderers (per India's ascetic tradition); later in China this slowly changed to monasteries (per China's culture); today, in Japan, Soka Gakkai is a very sect that does not even have monks, and is very tied to business and politics today - again, a similar phenomenon.